D&D 5E Why not Alternity? (Or, will or how might WotC do SF?)

Mercurius

Legend
The basic question for WotC and sci-fi games is really a simple one: Opportunity Cost.

What is likely to bring them greater value - putting resources on designing a new sci-fi game & setting(s), or spending those exact same resources on D&D or Magic?

At this time, when each D&D book seems to sell like gangbusters? Don't expect in investment in other games.
I agree, which is why I think they'll keep it "D&D" but maybe diversity what D&D is by extending it into other genres. Meaning, "other games" implies whole new rules systems, which I don't think they'll do. They could take the Path/Starfinder route, but with different genres as settings ala Alternity. Give the "gorilla" a laser pistol.
 

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Thomas Shey

Legend
Or as I'd put it, ask why D20 Modern didn't exactly do gangbusters. Some people may have disliked some elements of the system, but it was close enough to D&D3 to potentially ride its coat tails, but it didn't do so very successfully.
 

Mercurius

Legend
I guess. As a big fan of sci-fi... I wouldn't bother. Just give me Spelljammer, and drop the pretense that you're trying to do a different genre with the same engine.
Well here's a question for you, then (and for anyone wanting to speculate). Assuming that "phase one" (2014-23) is covering the most important basics of D&D canon, where do you think they'll go with "phase two?" (2024 and beyond). That's ten years in, and presumably a lot of even the new folks will be starting to get itchy for "something different." Do they keep going as is, and hope that expanding out into more Magic settings and fleshing out the classic worlds, and maybe adding a new one every so often--not to potential cross-polination from TV and film--will be enough to maintain the high plateau indefinitely?

The reason I find this inquiry fascinating is that we're actually approaching uncharted waters. Not just the huge popularity in and of itself, but how it might impact the line and change the "edition cycle paradigm." With 1E, they cleaned up and organized with 2E about a decade in, and then expanded broadly with the "setting golden age" in the 90s. After the 3E to 3.5E quick revision, they had a very short run of just five years (2003-07) churning out product. With 4E...well, you know.

Meaning, change and the direction of the game was always guided by the edition cycle. 1E needed cleaning up, so we got 2E. 2E was thoroughly glutted and struggling, plus WotC wanted to revamp the whole game and put their stamp on it. 4E came about after 3.5E's glut, and wanting to appeal to a new generation. And 5E came about through the failure of 4E to bring D&D to a new level and gather that new generation.

But now they've accomplished that. We're seven years in and still rising. And they've done it without the normal treadmill of products. Assuming they keep rising for a bit and find a very high plateau, D&D will be in new territory. How do they maintain that plateau?

One thing we have seen, as far as underlying patterns, is a slow increase in product, but a very measured one. After 2014, we saw three hardcovers for three years (2015-17), and then four hardcovers for the next three years (2018-20), and now presumably five hardcovers for the next three years (2021-23). Do they keep with that pattern, and go for six in 2024 and just play steady as she goes, expanding slowly with more product until they achieve glut and/or start declining?

At some point they'll have to do something...different. Maybe not in 2024, but I would think sometime shortly thereafter. "Different" might simply mean shifting the focus from the Realms and offering adventures in new worlds. Or it might mean a more meta approach, with neo-Planescape as a kind of cap-system that facilitates adventures in a variety of settings. Or maybe they focus on Magic settings. Or maybe, which is the hypothesis of this thread, they expand into science fiction.

I have no idea. I don't even assume that the SF approach is the one they'll take. In fact, I'd probably bet against it and think they'll remain focused on D&D. But I'm just thinking that, at some point, we'll see a shift of some kind, whether through expansion or a new approach.

But I ramble...
 
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The sci-fi has got a flaw or weak points, it gets old badly. New generations miss current technology we can't seen in the old titles, for example the new materials, the 3D-printers or the flat-screens. Even Game-Masters notice fantasy is easier to be controlled or directed.

Other challenge for designers is to try a sci-fi RPG enoughly compatible with D&D and that is too difficult.
 

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I actually don't know what Star Frontiers as a game system is actually like, and really just want expanded options building off of 5E except Sci-Fi specific classes and races.

What I do want, is to revive the old brand (not really the rules) of Star Frontier. Alternity sounds... kind of weird, it isn't quite as "on-the-nose" as D&D or Star Frontiers is.
The original Star Frontiers rules weren't very good. They where quite simple though. I think most people are interested in the setting - pulpy soft science fiction space opera. The rules? Throw out the old ones, the more like 5e, the better.

I think Alternity is far too big, serious and complicated for there to be much demand. People want a straightforward game where they can zap aliens and take their credits, not an elaborate universe-building toolset.

Starfinder failed to scratch the itch because it is too complicated to be accessible to non-gamers, and only did half the job by failing to reskin magic as space magic.

D20 Modern was a bland toolkit that failed to catch anyone's imagination.

Do I think WotC are actually likely to make Star Frontiers 5e? Realistically, no, not whilst the market for D&D is still growing. I don't think there will be any spin-offs that don't use the D&D core rulebooks. They are more likely to do something fully D&D compatible, based on Spelljammer.
 
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vecna00

Speculation Specialist Wizard
I'm of the mind that now would be the best time to gamble on something different, be it it sci-fi, modern, supers, all three. D&D 5e is so successful that I think they can take any loss that might come from developing something different. There's enough money coming in, there's a metric ton of eyes watching WotC to see what gets released, that they can take the chance. I don't know if they will take that chance, but I can bet it's at least been talked about and gets brought up from time to time, even if 5e Modern didn't pan out after that modern UA from a few years back.

I hope that they will take that chance, especially if Archetype is working on a sci-fi video game. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Archetype is also working on a table top version alongside the video game.
 

Sithlord

Adventurer
Or as I'd put it, ask why D20 Modern didn't exactly do gangbusters. Some people may have disliked some elements of the system, but it was close enough to D&D3 to potentially ride its coat tails, but it didn't do so very successfully.
The problem with d20 modern was you couldn’t just play a wizard. Sure there was a prestige class you could switch too. But when people want to play a fantasy game in a modern setting they still want to play a wizard or a vampire slayer. If they can get that through their head and learn from Jim butcher and btvs and Angel they just might be able to make a good modern setting/game.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Well here's a question for you, then (and for anyone wanting to speculate). Assuming that "phase one" (2014-23) is covering the most important basics of D&D canon, where do you think they'll go with "phase two?" (2024 and beyond).

I don't know. This division into phases seems arbitrary, with little clear connection to the dynamics of the situation.


But now they've accomplished that. We're seven years in and still rising. And they've done it without the normal treadmill of products.

Which is impressive, and kind of awesome, honestly.

Assuming they keep rising for a bit and find a very high plateau, D&D will be in new territory. How do they maintain that plateau?

Again, I don't know. I have a suspicions it will be through other media - TV, movies, and fiction - seeing as there's a movie in process, a TV series in development, new Dragonlance novels coming, and so on.

One thing that seems pretty obvious is that you can't hold the plateau of D&D by developing a separate game. And I am not convinced that the d20 engine is really suited to most sci-fi.
 

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