D&D 5E (2014) Why not Alternity? (Or, will or how might WotC do SF?)

[Mind of tempest]

Note my last sentence that you quoted.

it predated the industrial revolution thus your post was partly wrong.

 

[Sithlord]

it predated the industrial revolution thus your post was partly wrong.

yup. Should have wrote earlier in front of historical movements

 

[Grendel_Khan]

you do know planetary romance is like john carter and not about dating really?

But is John Carter your only reference point? I was thinking more along these lines:

The Best Planetary Romance Books - The Best Sci Fi Books

In planetary romance, the bulk of the action consists of adventures on one or more exotic alien planets, which usually have distinctive physical and cultural backgrounds. Many planetary romance stories are a little goofy and pulpy, but some take their characters a little more seriously. Note...

best-sci-fi-books.com

Most of those would be frankly awful with D&D rules, because you have to strip out most of the magic, and can't really replace it with high/retro/exotic-tech equivalents. And then there's all the interactions and everything else you do that isn't just smacking or shooting someone. D&D does tactical combat just fine...and really nothing else. But there tons of other systems with more options for more stuff, including the big, often melodramatic social interactions that are pretty central to some planetary romance stories.

 

[Mind of tempest]

But is John Carter your only reference point? I was thinking more along these lines:

The Best Planetary Romance Books - The Best Sci Fi Books

In planetary romance, the bulk of the action consists of adventures on one or more exotic alien planets, which usually have distinctive physical and cultural backgrounds. Many planetary romance stories are a little goofy and pulpy, but some take their characters a little more seriously. Note...

best-sci-fi-books.com

Most of those would be frankly awful with D&D rules, because you have to strip out most of the magic, and can't really replace it with high/retro/exotic-tech equivalents. And then there's all the interactions and everything else you do that isn't just smacking or shooting someone. D&D does tactical combat just fine...and really nothing else. But there tons of other systems with more options for more stuff, including the big, often melodramatic social interactions that are pretty central to some planetary romance stories.

well, I was going to dnd ify them I assumed that was inferred as part of the update.
also ever setting add rules for some facest od dnd why not more social rules?
it was also going to have to change a lot in much the same way really early dnd was Conan mixed with lodr and a lot of Vance any new one would be bonkers as lots of things I enjoy are technically in that genera most of which are odd.

I used john carter as an example because it is famous and was number five in the list.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Unless sales show any sign of slowing down, why would WotC bother? It'd sure be a more interesting hobby if its biggest company had a more diverse output, but people simply love stabbing stuff in dungeons, and also pretending that stabbing a vampire in a spooky manor means you're in a different genre than when you stab a kobold in a dank cavern.

Ah yes, the best D&D movie; Bram Stoker’s Dracula.

 

[Ixal]

The D&D system and formula doesn't really work for Scifi and Starfinder shows that really well.

Its not only the ludicrousness of PCs running through heavy supressive fire with a sword, its also how the common D&D/D20 style of four to five guys murdering things in dungeons for loot does not really fit with modern and futuristic societies and the possibilities available there (tracking, licensing, formal police forces and armies, WMDs for those world ending threats, etc).
In modern/futuristic settings skills also become more important like for example hacking or driving etc. And D&D is really bad when it comes to skills.
Starships are also something that do not work well in a D20 environment, especially when you get the usual gargantuan monsters D&D uses which can easily be targeted by starship weaponry.

So to do SciFi well WotC would have to create a new RPG instead of using D&D which drives up cost and means they can't rely on the D&D brand to draw in people.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The original Star Frontiers rules weren't very good. They where quite simple though. I think most people are interested in the setting - pulpy soft science fiction space opera. The rules? Throw out the old ones, the more like 5e, the better.

I think Alternity is far too big, serious and complicated for there to be much demand. People want a straightforward game where they can zap aliens and take their credits, not an elaborate universe-building toolset.

Starfinder failed to scratch the itch because it is too complicated to be accessible to non-gamers, and only did half the job by failing to reskin magic as space magic.

D20 Modern was a bland toolkit that failed to catch anyone's imagination.

Do I think WotC are actually likely to make Star Frontiers 5e? Realistically, no, not whilst the market for D&D is still growing. I don't think there will be any spin-offs that don't use the D&D core rulebooks. They are more likely to do something fully D&D compatible, based on Spelljammer.

I really hope they build something similar to Star Wars Saga Edition but more similar to 5e in crunch, with a new setting.

I don’t care if they ever do a “hard sci-fi” game, since that isn’t my boogy, but a fantastical sci-fi setting would be great, and would work fantastically using the 5e engine.

 

[Reynard]

The D&D system and formula doesn't really work for Scifi and Starfinder shows that really well.

Its not only the ludicrousness of PCs running through heavy supressive fire with a sword, its also how the common D&D/D20 style of four to five guys murdering things in dungeons for loot does not really fit with modern and futuristic societies and the possibilities available there (tracking, licensing, formal police forces and armies, WMDs for those world ending threats, etc).
In modern/futuristic settings skills also become more important like for example hacking or driving etc. And D&D is really bad when it comes to skills.
Starships are also something that do not work well in a D20 environment, especially when you get the usual gargantuan monsters D&D uses which can easily be targeted by starship weaponry.

So to do SciFi well WotC would have to create a new RPG instead of using D&D which drives up cost and means they can't rely on the D&D brand to draw in people.

I ran Starfinder for quite some time and it works fine.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The D&D system and formula doesn't really work for Scifi and Starfinder shows that really well.

Its not only the ludicrousness of PCs running through heavy supressive fire with a sword, its also how the common D&D/D20 style of four to five guys murdering things in dungeons for loot does not really fit with modern and futuristic societies and the possibilities available there (tracking, licensing, formal police forces and armies, WMDs for those world ending threats, etc).
In modern/futuristic settings skills also become more important like for example hacking or driving etc. And D&D is really bad when it comes to skills.
Starships are also something that do not work well in a D20 environment, especially when you get the usual gargantuan monsters D&D uses which can easily be targeted by starship weaponry.

So to do SciFi well WotC would have to create a new RPG instead of using D&D which drives up cost and means they can't rely on the D&D brand to draw in people.

Star Wars Saga Edition proves this completely false.

 

[Don Durito]

Planetary Romance would be easy to do on a D&D framework.

It's ideal really, it's got monsters and aliens, ancient ruins etc; you could use psionics instead of magic; you could have a scholar class that unlocks ancient tech. There have been numerous gestures at it over the years from Dark Sun to various efforts by Paizo.

Of course you would have to approach it in a D&D way, but that would probably be a plus, games that emulate genres and add nothing to them tend to sink pretty quickly. (Most gamers want to do something else other than just pastiche literary works).

As to whether WOTC would do anything with Science Fiction? Probably not. They're a big corporation and brand identity is king. I suspect they have decided fantasy is their brand. Maybe if popular culture ever escapes from the current conservative cul de sac that it is in.