Why won't you switch?

[rgard]

I don't think it is safe to finalize assumptions of design mentality. The arguments presented so far have basically boiled down to, "that's not my game anymore. Why must they change that?"

Well, the point of change is innovation. Without change, there can be no innovation. Perhaps the game will not substantially reflect prior editions, but why is that a bad thing?

I for one don't have a problem with innovation. As far as rpgs go, 3.X/OGL delivered the innovation I wanted. My players can adventure in the worlds of Star Wars, Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Stargate, Star Trek, CoC, Barsoom, Starship Troopers, Traveller, Everquest, the World of Warcraft, Wheel of Time, Elric, Blackmoor, Shannara, Thieves World, Grim Tales, D20 Modern, D20 Past, D20 Future, Conan and many others using the same basic game mechanics. And that is just a cursory glance at my book case of rpgs.

I'm confident there will be folks who continue to produce 3.X/OGL compatible stuff. I'll be buying their products. I'll continue to buy WotC's Dungeon Tiles as I don't think whatever they to with 4E will change that product line.

Innovation isn't bad, I have a bookcase full of innovation I want to game my way through.

4E's innovation isn't bad, it's just not for me at this time.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Wolfspider]

I for one don't have a problem with innovation. As far as rpgs go, 3.X/OGL delivered the innovation I wanted. My players can adventure in the worlds of Star Wars, Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Stargate, Star Trek, CoC, Barsoom, Starship Troopers, Traveller, Everquest, the World of Warcraft, Wheel of Time, Elric, Blackmoor, Shannara, Thieves World, Grim Tales, D20 Modern, D20 Past, D20 Future, Conan and many others using the same basic game mechanics. And that is just a cursory glance at my book case of rpgs.

Good point! I hadn't really thought of this.

I doubt that we will see such a broad range of products released under the GSL. It seems to be pushing all third party products toward D&D style fantasy.....

Hmmm....

 

[Aus_Snow]

I doubt that we will see such a broad range of products released under the GSL. It seems to be pushing all third party products toward D&D style fantasy.....

There will apparently be another license (a more broad, or open one) somewhere down the track. I seem to recall that will come with d20 Modern v2.0, but I'm not absolutely sure.

 

[Gallo22]

Oddly enough, for me it's the changes in resource management that have me down on the new edition. I actually liked having to deal with limited resources, and being clever about getting the most out of them. I know many people aren't fond of that, and I don't begrudge them wanting to eliminate the "15-minute workday." In the end, the resource management challenges were a fundamental part of what made D&D different from its competitors in the FRPG market.

Well said!! I love it when my players think out of the box, when their resources are limited and succeed galantly!! I give them hugh EX for this. I've had my players do some awesume things with very little and come out on top of the "bad guys".

 

[Wolfspider]

There will apparently be another license (a more broad, or open one) somewhere down the track. I seem to recall that will come with d20 Modern v2.0, but I'm not absolutely sure.

Well, this would be good news.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Well, this would be good news.

Damn.

I hate being the bringer of glad tidings. Hang on a sec, I'll try looking up the details. Hopefully I can debunk my own claim.


edit --- Heh, nothing definite, just this: "Future versions of the OGL, including a 4e d20 Modern version, may make certain games possible where they weren’t before." (emphasis mine) It's from the EN World 4e page, btw.

 

[AllisterH]

re: RACES

I think this is a case of what does WOTC listen to what its audience wants. Take the Dragonborn for example, as that seems like a too outlandish race to my mind. However, looking back at the history of 3.x, exactly how many times did we run across Half-dragon races/templates.

From the very beginning with the Dragon Disciple to the end in the PHB2's Dragon Shaman, it seemed every year WOTC released a "let's play as a dragon-inspired PC". Now while I'm personally dumbfounded by this appeal, I think it makes sense for WOTC to put Dragonborn into the PHB since quite frankly, dragon-pc ARE popular and not listening to your audience is not something I would advise.

re: Tieflings
Yeah, as soon as I read about Bael Turath I thought, Melniboneans as well.

 

[Aus_Snow]

From the very beginning with the Dragon Disciple to the end in the PHB2's Dragon Shaman, it seemed every year WOTC released a "let's play as a dragon-inspired PC". Now while I'm personally dumbfounded by this appeal, I think it makes sense for WOTC to put Dragonborn into the PHB since quite frankly, dragon-pc ARE popular and not listening to your audience is not something I would advise.

Absolutely. Angels and demons, and stuff to do with them, are *insanely* popular too. Have been for years. And so. . .

 

[Nellisir]

When 3e came out, one reason I knew a lot of longtime veterans switched over was that it had a lot of respect for what came before with D&D, it brought back things that hadn't been in 2e but in 1e (Assassins, Monks, Barbarians, Half-Orcs), it acknowledged Greyhawk as the standard D&D world (at least in theory).

That's true, and not something I'd really noticed. Alot of the excitement about 3e was because alot of "classic" D&D tropes were coming back - demons and devils also spring to mind. I don't see -any- of that with 4e. Instead, I see WotC emphasizing the new things they added in 3e (tieflings originated in 2e Planescape, yadda yadda yadda, point stands vis a vis warlock, martial "spells" aka maneuvers, 4e "tested" in book of 9 pointy things, etc).

Now, I like the new things. They are shiny. But they are also quick to propagate, fickle, and prone to errata, and in some curmudgeonly corner of my heart, it bothers me that alot of the empasis in the previews has been on the shiny and new.

The juvenile tone is also annoying (X beat up X and took his stuff).

I'm still going to buy the core books, but my level of enthusiasm is alot lower than it could've been.

 

[Ebon Shar]

Now I'm thirsty.

Anyway, this example would be more relevent to the discussion at hand:

You win, Wolfspider. Innovation is dead.