D&D 5E Will D&D Next qualify as "Rules Lite"?

[Morrus]

I hope not. I have a shelf full of amazing rules-lite games (assuming you call SW, FATE, GUMSHOE etc. rules-lite). They're all awesome, but there's room on my shelf for something nice and crunchy.

 

[ccooke]

It's pretty much medium when you take the default rules - optional feats, subclass options, skills, etc.

A basic version might qualify as light, though - no multiclassing, baked-in subclass and background, no feats... no skills, even, if you want.

 

[TerraDave]

I think you could say that...

medium, rules.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

No.

That said, it is of course up to debate and opinion on how to define "rules light." I look at it from a perspective of RPGs in general, not from a perspective of D&D editions. For instance, I wouldn't even call Fate Core rules light (though I would call Fate Accelerate edition.)

So in order to know how to answer, we'd have to know what other games you consider rules light or not. Then I can tell you where you're wrong.

 

[GMMichael]

That said, it is of course up to debate and opinion on how to define "rules light." I look at it from a perspective of RPGs in general, not from a perspective of D&D editions. For instance, I wouldn't even call Fate Core rules light (though I would call Fate Accelerate edition.)

Let's take a crack at that:

Rules-heavy: The PCs must use tables or refer to rulebooks during roleplaying, uncertain actions, and combat.

Rules-medium: The PCs must use tables or refer to rulebooks during some uncertain actions and combat.

Rules-light: The PCs must refer to a rulebook only during combat.

 

[Neonchameleon]

At release, do you think D&D Next will qualify as rules lite?

Nope. Not even close.

Let's take a crack at that:

Rules-heavy: The PCs must use tables or refer to rulebooks during roleplaying, uncertain actions, and combat.

Rules-medium: The PCs must use tables or refer to rulebooks during some uncertain actions and combat.

Rules-light: The PCs must refer to a rulebook only during combat.

I'll tweak the above:

Rules-very heavy: The PCs must use tables or refer to rulebooks during roleplaying, uncertain actions, and combat.

Rules-heavy: The PCs must use tables or refer to rulebooks during some uncertain actions and combat.

Rules-medium: The PCs must refer to a rulebook only during combat.

Rules-light: The PCs only refer to any rules not on their character sheets in exceptional circumstances. Edit: The core rules themselves can fit on no more than four sides of A4, and preferably two.

Rules-ultralight: The PCs only need to glance at their character sheets. These character sheets fit on a single side of an index card or are pure narrative such as in a game of Dread.

For the record, even by this scale 4E qualifies as rules-light although it does do it by wriggling in there with a very large character sheet. (I'd also point out that number of modifiers is a useful factor).

 

[keterys]

If 4E (or 3E, I'm not picking on 4E) qualifies as rules light, then I think I save to disbelieve your scale Tracking of conditions alone, nevermind 8 - 16 page character sheets begs to differ.

I'd suggest bumping the scale up by 1 somewhere in the middle so you have a "heavy" below "very heavy".

 

[Neonchameleon]

If 4E qualifies as rules light, then I think I save to disbelieve your scale

I'd suggest bumping the scale up by 1 somewhere in the middle so you have a "heavy" below "very heavy".

I already did bump up DMMike's scale by 1. His version of Rules Light made 4e too light to qualify - I've gone with a not particularly rules adept group for more than a year without the PCs ever needing to look anything up in a rulebook. (It's also much lighter than it looks - I really must finish tweaking my double sided trifold that contains all the rules you need for 4e).

But well spotted on my not including heavy. I didn't copy the original scale properly - excuse me while I edit...

4e however only fits into rules light by the skin of its teeth under the exact definitions. I'd call it rules medium myself (and 3e rules heavy). Next in the playtests is clear rules-medium, and heavier than 4e.

 

[keterys]

I like the concept of "Everything I need to know fits on an index card" - I'd suggest the stage after it is on a single sheet of paper. That would put 4E in whatever category is after that.

Grid rules, opportunity Attacks, conditions, a myriad of tracking terms, number of possible modifiers. Fiddly to super fiddly powers. It all adds up to make 4E quite complicated in practice even if it _could_ be very simple in theory. If you ignored a lot of stuff and attempted to streamline things.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I like the concept of "Everything I need to know fits on an index card" - I'd suggest the stage after it is on a single sheet of paper. That would put 4E in whatever category is after that.

I don't think that there's much difference between index card and a sheet of paper - and I really can't think of many games in that gap. But it would be entirely possible to put the split with rules-light being an index card but with mechanics (for example Fate Core, Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, Fiasco) and rules medium being either double sided character sheets and a lot of looking up or

Grid rules, opportunity Attacks,

The only problems I've ever seen from these two are veteran 3.5 players who are used to the horrible mess that is the 3.5 Attack of Opportunity triggers.

conditions, a myriad of tracking terms, number of possible modifiers. Fiddly to super fiddly powers. It all adds up to make 4E quite complicated in practice even if it _could_ be very simple in theory. If you ignored a lot of stuff and attempted to streamline things.

Not that fiddly IME. But yes, if it's in the light as opposed to medium section it's a bug in the ordering. How about:

Rules-medium: The PCs must refer to a rulebook only during combat or the PCs have character sheets that cover more than two sides. Modifiers fit a standard set, and mechanics are unified. Debilitating effects are standardised.

Rules-light: The PCs only refer to any rules not on their character sheets in exceptional circumstances. Character sheets fit on an index card or contain most possible character build options and advances - even ones not taken. There is seldom more either than one modifier or two one unit modifiers per roll. Debilitating effects are mostly a name and possibly a number.
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This puts 4e comfortably into rules-medium while putting Dungeon World and Fate Core comfortably into rules light (and Dresden Files and Spirit of the Century into Rules Medium). All of which feel right to me.