Will Learning to DM Make a Better Player?

[Camelot]

I'm exclusively a DM in real life. My players are all exclusively players. I DM only because I don't know anyone else who knows how, and my players are players only because they don't know any other DM.

When we all started out, completely new to the realm of TTRPGs, it was (and still is) mostly a lot of fun. However, I sometimes get upset at my players because they don't pay attention, complain about things, don't attempt creative actions, etc. They sometimes get bored because combat is taking too long, NPCs aren't interesting enough, I'm not dropping enough plot hooks, etc. These are problems in the players and myself, not the game; plus, these problems fold onto themselves and create more similar problems, repeating this until someone loses their patience and wishes to stop playing for the day.

An example that happened recently was a new player (who has only played a TTRPG once before, also with me as DM) created a fighter who was built for dealing damage as well as taking hits. I guided him through the character creation process, doing most of the work for him, and then we all sat down to play. During the first fight, this player stepped out in front to take on the monsters, as a fighter should. The monsters retaliated as appropriate. Over the course of the entire fight, this fighter was the only character to take damage, partly due to chance but mostly due to him being in the front. Also over the course of the entire fight, the player complained that he was the only one getting hurt. I tried explaining to him that he was a fighter, it was his job to take the most damage and protect the others. It wasn't a huge problem, and we all had a lot of fun, but it kept nagging me that he expected to get out of the fight scar-free.

Recently, I've gotten the idea that these recurring problems are caused because no one at the table knows what it's like to be on the other side of the screen, including myself. So, I want to teach each of my regular players how to DM and give myself a chance to play. This way, I hope for them to learn the responsibilites they didn't even know I had, and most importantly to learn which actions of the players annoy or please the DM, so that they will learn to avoid the annoying actions and take more pleasing actions when they are playing. I will hopefully learn more about what kinds of plots are fun for players and how long a combat encounter can go without getting boring from a player's point of view. I hope that maybe we could run a game in which the task of DM is switched around each game, or maybe one player will learn to love DMing and start their own game.

Am I being too drastic? Will this only result in them being overwhelmed, bored, or annoyed? Or will it actually achieve the goals I have in mind? Thank you in advance for your advice and anecdotes!

 

[korjik]

You are being too drastic. You will have overwhelmed, bored or annoyed players. You might actually achieve your goals tho.

If you have to hold hands to the point of doing most of the work during character creation, you probably arent going to get them to learn the rules all that well. Mind you, a guy who has played twice is probably not going to have much of the rules down in any case.

Trying to teach them more of the rules is not a bad idea tho. If they have a better appreciation of what you do an how you do it, they may be able to meet you half way to fix alot of your problems.

Just dont try to force it on them. Some people really dont like to learn the rules, and you dont want to make the problem worse.

 

[athos]

My guess is that they will balk or quit if you try to force them to DM... it takes work to come up with interesting adventures and they sound like they are a bit on the whiny side to begin with.

Adventuring should be fun.

You should definitely download OpenRPG (it's free) and play in a few online games yourself. You are really missing out by not playing. It might even give you some ideas on how other people make successful games and you can "steal" some of these to freshen up your own game.

I try to play as much as possible, even though I get roped into GMing a lot, because it reminds me what it is like to be on the reverse side of the screen. Players don't like to get railroaded, they don't like to fight encounters that are too difficult, but they do like to think they achieved something at the end of the session. I am not suggesting you do any of these things wrong, just what I look for in games that I play in.

If the game is getting stale, and you really want/need a break from GMing, then you should approach the player you think is most capable of handling the job and ask if that person will GM a premade module for the group. You can find a lot online, or you can buy one at a hobby store. Give the module to the player / newbie GM and let them have a shot at it. Red Hand of Doom is a good 4-5 session module for 3.5, not sure what game you are playing but I am sure you can find something.

With the pressure off to "create" their own adventure, you should be able to join in and relax a bit as they GM it. They may even like doing it. Anyways, at the end of the month, you can take over the job again now that you have had a break and the party has had a bit of a change, should be fun for all of you.

If the game isn't fun anymore, why play ? It's a hobby, it should be entertaining, don't lose sight of that, not just for yourself, but for your group

 

[MortonStromgal]

A player who DMs from time to time will have a better appreciation for what the DM does

A DM who plays from time to time under other DMs will become a much better DM by seeing things that DM does right and wrong and borrowing and avoiding that stuff accordingly.

 

[Gilladian]

In the situation you're in, I would strongly suggest you DO try to encourage one or two of your other players to DM for a session or two, each.

Help them select a module (as folks have said, there are plenty online, or you can buy a month's subscription to Dungeon and download a few) and then let them read it. If they have questions, they can always ask you for help with specific rules issues; you just need to be really careful not to use the info they give you to "beat" the module.

You as DM will find playing to be a real eye-opener. I always forget how "helpless" players can feel when they don't know what's going on behind the scenes - a monster looks LOTS tougher when you can't see that it has 3 hp left!

And any player who has never DMed has NO idea how complex it is - they don't know how many things you're tracking, where your attention goes, and how HARD roleplaying several NPCs, one after another, can be. Once they've had that experience, they'll be much better players (or they'll love it and fight you for behind the screen time!).

 

[Stormonu]

Let players be players; they don't need to be DMs to enjoy or "thoroughly" enjoy the game. At the same time, if someone does show interest in running a game, I would be encouraging of that - but not forcing them to. It sounds more like inexperience with the game itself than anything else.

Car mechanics aren't necessarily better drivers; video/board game designers aren't necessarily better gamers and so on. You can just as well drive a car without ever being a mechanic or enjoy a video game without ever designing one.

As a 95% DM, I do encourage you to take at least one turn on the other side of the table as a player, though. There are some things you can't fathom about the player's side if you never sit on that side of the table that can improve your DMing.

An example that happened recently was a new player (who has only played a TTRPG once before, also with me as DM) created a fighter who was built for dealing damage as well as taking hits. I guided him through the character creation process, doing most of the work for him, and then we all sat down to play. During the first fight, this player stepped out in front to take on the monsters, as a fighter should. The monsters retaliated as appropriate. Over the course of the entire fight, this fighter was the only character to take damage, partly due to chance but mostly due to him being in the front. Also over the course of the entire fight, the player complained that he was the only one getting hurt. I tried explaining to him that he was a fighter, it was his job to take the most damage and protect the others. It wasn't a huge problem, and we all had a lot of fun, but it kept nagging me that he expected to get out of the fight scar-free.

Be careful; this sounds like a case that your own expectations may have tarnished what the player was really wanting/expecting. In this case, I think the player may have really wanted to using a ranged character instead of a up-front melee character (being able to deal good damage but avoid taking it in the first place). You, on the other hand were expecting that a fighter should be *required* to be someone who is in the front ranks going toe to toe with the enemy; I don't think your expectations matched the players, nor does it sound you were willing to bend your expectations to consider how to help the player meet his expectations of what the character should be like.

 

[Nameless1]

Not sure if it really fits or not, but your group may be playing a game that is more complicated that you actually would like. If the players are not interested in learning the rules, then this is probably the case. If the players are just inexperienced, then this might not be the case.

In either case, trying out a simpler game for a bit might make getting other players to GM easier. They can concentrate on learning the ropes without being overwhelmed by the complexities of the game. The skills involved in the act of GMing a traditional game are often transferable between different games, and it is the details that are specific. It is not necesarily bad to start simple. I would suggest one of the Retro Clones or Savege Worlds.

Another way to go about it would be to try some games that spread the GM duties around a little more. I am a big fan of InSpectres. There is still a traditional GM, but prep is very minimal, and some of the duties of the GM are spread around the table to the players some. Simple game with a TON of fun value.

After playing that, you might try a fully GMless game. The Committee for the Exploration of Mysteries is a game that is pretty simple, very fun, and totally spreads the duties of the GM around the table. It also retains the quest/dungeoncrawling aspects of D&D.

Anyway, I think GMing will definitely make you a better player. Stormonu made a car mechanics:drivers analogy, but I think that a better analogy is driver: passenger. Having to drive sometimes will make you appreciate when others do. For gaming, this appreciation is not the only benefit. Unlike for cars, more than one person can drive a game, and the more people that drive a game, the better, as long as they are not all driving to different places.

 

[HoboGod]

If you're having one of your players be the DM, be their backseat DM. I was backseat DMing for a friend of mine who has had next to no experience in how to be the DM. If your player is as inexperienced as her, he/she wont have any idea of how many monsters to throw at the players, what kind of treasure he/she should be handing out, what's an appropriate amount of experience to be giving her players, and so on. Also, players are rotten, despicable, heartless monsters with no appreciation for a DM's feelings, being a backseat DM will allow you to stick up for your player when being criticized. However, be firm with this player, tell him/her when he/she isn't being strict on the other player's behavior or perhaps too strict (unlikely, players tend to walk all over new DMs).

In the end, will the player learn to be a better player? Maybe, maybe not. If you have faith enough in this person, that person is likely a good player already and might not need much room for improvement. If that person is a bad player, well, prepare for huge disappointment. Bad players tend to fall into two categories: they don't like the game and are just playing it for some trivial reason or they are mild sociopaths which have almost no capacity to relate to others. Sometimes, really bad players fall into both categories. The people who don't like the game will have no passion and learn nothing, your only hope is that they develop some passion after DMing. The sociopaths might learn something and have a better appreciation of the DM, but they have an even slimmer chance of becoming a better player as a result.

 

[Fifth Element]

It sounds like there might be some disconnect between what you and your players are looking for in the game. The best solution to that is to just talk about it, rather than trying to figure things out.

That being said, there is certainly validity in your wanting to play at time. I DM most of the time, but I value the 15-20% of the time that I'm a player instead. And switching "sides" does give some perspective you might not otherwise have.

In one game I'm DMing, one the players is a DM who hadn't been a player in about 30 years. While the other players will occasionally complain about a ruling of mine or what have you, the other DM doesn't, he accepts it and carries on without batting an eyelash. He realizes the amount of work involved in DMing, and doesn't want to make my job any harder.

But although there is value in players trying to DM a bit, forcing a player to do so isn't a good idea. Some people just are not interested in that aspect of the game. Hopefully one or two of your players will give it a shot.

 

[Hand of Evil]

There are a number of things that you can do but mostly it comes down to intereacting with the players. The best thing to do is every now and then get there feed back on the game, what they want, the direction and so on. Also discuss your concerns with them and ask how they can help, ideas on combat, npcs, whatever.

Some baby steps:

Give the players home work, to help you out.

• Ask for each to provide a single location that their character knows of. This could be anything, from a tavern to the caves of doom, just have them provide you a description.
• Ask for an NPC from the character's past. Have the players provide one NPC with stat block from their character's background.
• Random encounter - simple chart d6 1) bridge 2) city street 3) road between Cities 4) Woods 5) Sewer 6) Tavern - have the players roll and then provide you a discription of an encounter in each location.
• Have them provide a map for something - a graveyard, a jail, a temple, a tavern...
• Rumors - ask for two.
• Ask for a description of a 10x10 room!

You don't have to use them (right away) but build and change as you see fit. The players will learn what you do for the game.

See DM Advice for other thoughts.