D&D (2024) Will Pact Magic survive?

[Remathilis]

The Warlock's limits are what make it fun. If he could just use a ton of spells optimally he'd just be a wizard.

I have fun casting my spells. I don't have fun holding them because I don't know if I'm going to recharge them. Ymmv.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I miss the concept of vestige pact binder class, from 3.5 Tome of Magic.

I imagine the warlock like an updated version of binder, where with a little time for a ritual you can change your spell list. The binder's powers would work like a ranged-arcane magic version of the martial maneuvers from Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords. You cast your "mistery" and await a moment to reload, for example with a Concentration check, or a turn without action.

Other idea is to recycle the incarnum. You spend "essence points" to unlock metamagic effects, and "activate chakras" for extra. But the system should be simple and fast for the 5Ed standars.

 

[Pauln6]

my tome lock ended the game with multi epic boons... I was a 17 tome warlock/ 3 divine soul sorcerer with both shadow touch and magic adept druid... a warlock of baba yaga that had so many at will abilities I can't even remember them all... the funny part was that I had so many at will spells and cantrips at the end and I never ended up taking eldritch blast at all...

Early game I had primal savagery and toll the dead, and in the end I had hand of radiance and chill touch mixed in.

My PC was converted from a 1e concept that was played for the first time in 2e and morphed over each edition. Original concept was human thief-acrobat 6 who learned the ways of magic. When 2e came along I was able to swap classes at Thief 3 instead and then I played her as a Level 0 wizard with a single cantrip once per day. She was lucky enough to be chosen by the Sentinel when we played that module, which allowed her to surpass her rogue levels, and then when we played Baltron's Beacon, we used exposure to blackflame to re-cast her as a 2e shadow mage. In 3e that morphed into rogue/sorcerer, then assassin/warlock hybrid/rogue multiclass in 4e, and finally rogue/warlock/sorcerer in 5e.

What I found is that the warlock is such a customisable class that it is easy to flavour it to your concept. If I had picked shadow sorcerer instead of warlock all long, the spell choices and class features would have felt quite anaemic to me, despite having more spells per day. I can certanly see why, despite its limitations, it is such a popular class. It just needs that little magical nudge, whether it's making a roll to regain a spell slot when you fulfill your pact, or a limited recharge mechanic, I don't think it would take much.

I'd be quite happy with feats like the ones in Dragonlance or invocations that let me choose to layer on a few more shadowy spells but shadow magic is very poorly represented in 5e so far.

 

[Undrave]

I'd be quite happy with feats like the ones in Dragonlance or invocations that let me choose to layer on a few more shadowy spells but shadow magic is very poorly represented in 5e so far.

Invocations is where it’s at to be more magical. We need more that give you new at-will abilities or the model where you get one free use then can use your spell slots.

 

[TwoSix]

Which is why I feel warlock isn't really a caster. They are magical, but so is a monk. I'd like to see a warlock be a real caster. Or I would like to see it lose spellcasting and really lean into invocations.

Which is exactly the part I don't want to change. I don't warlock to be as at good as casting as the other full casters. We already have full casters. We probably have too many full casters. I want less full casters, and more classes that have fun schticks beyond casting.

If the problem is that it feels like the warlock trope should be married to a full caster chassis, I sympathize, but that's generally the problem that D&D has with tying specific tropes to specific mechanical expressions.

 

[Krachek]

I also really like that Warlock allow some “cheating” , It’s the base purpose of dark magic after all!

 

[Undrave]

Which is exactly the part I don't want to change. I don't warlock to be as at good as casting as the other full casters. We already have full casters. We probably have too many full casters. I want less full casters, and more classes that have fun schticks beyond casting.

If the problem is that it feels like the warlock trope should be married to a full caster chassis, I sympathize, but that's generally the problem that D&D has with tying specific tropes to specific mechanical expressions.

Yes!

If you're used to spell casters being swiss army knives (or full tool boxes, like a Wizard), the Warlock might feel like a spoon, but I think it's actually a cool camp knife. It looks weird and only really works for a few things, but it does those things really well and you just want to do it all the time.

I also really like that Warlock allow some “cheating” , It’s the base purpose of dark magic after all!

AND the Warlock is a cheater! They made a deal for power, they shouldn't be working like plain old casters, they don't have TIME for that memorizing and switch spell BS. They got faces to Eldritch Blast!

 

[Krachek]

Pact magic, or any alternate system will be even more sane for the game since the other casters will have the same new system of prepared spells link to spell slots.

 

[VenerableBede]

5.5 needs Pact Magic to help the edition survive the nuclear homogenization going on with the other spellcasters. For people who don’t like Pact Magic… there’s an abundance of other arcane casters. Have fun with them.

Warlock is my most-played class. Unfortunately, most of the parties I’ve played with are really averse to short rests, for some reason. This doesn’t make me want warlocks to change to be more like regular casters—far from it—but it does make me wish that they could take notes from the most recent incarnations of Channel Divinity/Nature. I think it would be perfect if Pact Magic granted a handful of spell slots (more than they currently have, more than the number of uses granted by the Channels for their respective features) that are cast at highest level available and recharge on a long rest, but you also recharge one spell slot on a short rest. Two recharge per short rest starting at 11th level or something. IMO, this would strike a good middle line, still giving warlocks plenty of inclination to ride lots of short rests, but helps the warlock not be punished as a class when short rests just aren’t a thing. (I like this solution more than the common suggestion of “PB times/LR, meditate for 5 minutes and get all your spell slots back.)

Also, I prefer my warlocks with spell points rather than spell slots, but I’d be very surprised if WotC made that the default. But using spell points goes a long way to help warlocks stretch out how many spells they can cast a day and make certain lower-level spells—like Misty Step—not feel like a complete waste once you have access to spell slots of a level or more higher.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Which is exactly the part I don't want to change. I don't warlock to be as at good as casting as the other full casters. We already have full casters. We probably have too many full casters. I want less full casters, and more classes that have fun schticks beyond casting.

If the problem is that it feels like the warlock trope should be married to a full caster chassis, I sympathize, but that's generally the problem that D&D has with tying specific tropes to specific mechanical expressions.

I want all full casters, but with good casting systems instead of desperately trying to cling on to the rotting corpse of Vancian Casting.