Will, Wisdom and Charisma

[LoneWolf23]

Ever since 3rd edition started, Charisma is no longer good looks, but more "strength of personality"... And Charisma is the stat used for Sorceror and Bard spellcasting... But Will is still determined based off Wisdom, which mostly affects sensory perception.

Now, Wouldn't it make more sense if Will saves were based off Charisma? Since, after all, making a Will save means having the strength of will to shrug off mental influences and such...

 

[blargney the second]

Maybe your mind needs to perceive that it's under attack in order to defend itself.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I see it this way... For the Physical Stats, you have Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution... For the mental stats, you have Charisma (mental strength), Intelligence (mental dexterity) and Wisdom (mental constitution)...

Later
silver

 

[Bad Paper]

For the Physical Stats, you have Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution... For the mental stats, you have Charisma (mental strength), Intelligence (mental dexterity) and Wisdom (mental constitution)...

hey, that's pretty good

 

[frankthedm]

I see it this way... For the Physical Stats, you have Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution... For the mental stats, you have Charisma (mental strength), Intelligence (mental dexterity) and Wisdom (mental constitution)...

Disagree.

Intelligence is mental strength for many of the animals and such are veiwed as weaker minds.

Wisdom is mental dexterity for it avoids attacks on the mind. It even combines with true dexterity in the core monk class.

Charisma is mental constitution for should the body die, it is charisma that will matter the most [incoporeal AC bonus and Unholy toughness for monster that have it]

 

[Aaron L]

I see it this way... For the Physical Stats, you have Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution... For the mental stats, you have Charisma (mental strength), Intelligence (mental dexterity) and Wisdom (mental constitution)...

Later
silver

This is how I've always viewed it. Strength and Charisma both are both force stats, Dexterity and Intelligence are both manipulation (either objects or data) stats, and Constitution and Wisdom are both resistance stats.

Disagree.

Intelligence is mental strength for many of the animals and such are veiwed as weaker minds.

That's a poor way to define it, because weak minded usually implies easy to manipulate or lacking in willpower, which would mean low Wisdom, Intelligent people are often described as having agile minds, and those with high Charisma are often described as having a powerful force of personality.

There are way too many turns of phrase like that to use one as a basis.

 

[Sejs]

Intelligence is mental strength for many of the animals and such are veiwed as weaker minds.

I've got to agree with Aaron here.

Using a colloquialism isn't exactly a strong basis.

 

[shilsen]

One more agreement for the set of analogies Michael Silverbane used, and disagreement with frankthedm's ones.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Charisma is the measure of the extent to which you can exert your personality on the universe.

Wisdom is the measure of the extent to which you can resist the same thing.

I'm definitely in agreement with the Strength/Dexterity/Constitution::Charisma/Intelligence/Wisdom analogy.

 

[DreamChaser]

definitely in the str/cha; dex/int; con/wis camp

I agree with Jeff's assessment. Wisdom is sense of self (thus the monk's bonus-a deep awareness of one's place in the world- and using it to resist the outside world's attempt to influence you); Charisma is force of personality or "ego"