Will you be purchasing PDFs from DriveThruRPG?

[JediSoth]

*firk ding blast* Double post. Sorry about that.

 

[BryonD]

However, in priniciple, I'm strongly in favor of some sort of digital rights management. It's becoming more and more clear that most people don't regard copying commercial music, software, movies, and books without paying for them as immoral (and here I'm talking about obtaining a first copy, not moving a copy you've already paid for to a secondary device that you own). Greater availability of fast internet access and cheaper storage are making it incredibly easy to share illegally obtained IP. So I'm very concerned that without workable rights management technologies, it will become difficult to make a profit selling digital works in the near future. I shouldn't have to explain why this would be bad.

Numerous people have made it clear that being opposed to the current incarnation of Adobe DRM in no way infers any objection to copyright protection.

To the contrary, I am confident that most people who voted NO feel as I do that copyright protection is very important.
But we still will not buy crippled product, even moreso when the defense of IP provided is an illusion.

 

[humble minion]

Well, my completely insignificant opinion.

I won't be buying any DRM material. I may end up downloading some of their free stuff (I already use a hotmail account for MSN messenger, so the horse has well and truly bolted on the keeping-my-computer-secure-from-.NET-passport front) and doing my best to hunt up a DRM-cracker online, but frankly I'm not sure if I can be bothered. However, I won't be boycotting any of the print products of DTRPGs vendors either. I'm making the choice because I don't think a DRM product is worth my money. Why?

- Accessibility. When buying pdfs, I pay and download from work (using the broadband connection), then burn to CD and bring them home in that medium. Work either a) uses Linux or b) frowns on registring Acrobat for personal tasks like this.
- Longevity. From what I've read here and on rpg.net (yes, I read all 84 pages of the thread there) there is as yet no clear answer as to how many computers you can register. I'm hardly a cutting-edge hardware type, but I upgrade my computer every three years or so, and the wonders of Windows pretty much mandates a hard drive format and reinstall once a year. As such, a limited number of registrations will mean the product becomes inaccessible in a few years.
- Obsolescence. I have Dark Sun material in my gaming drawer that I bought around ten years ago. I intend to use this to run an epic campign when my current Star Wars game has wound up, and my mate S has run his dark fantasy campaign. By the time i get to use this material, it will be pushing 15 years old and, because I have taken care of it, will still be as usable as the day I bought it. If I buy a pdf from DTRPG, can anyone guarantee that I will still be able to use it in 15 years and that I will not, through no fault of my own, lose access to it at some stage? If DTRPG and/or Adobe disappear (don't laugh - whose software were you using 15 years ago?), or stop supporting the current version of Acrobat/DRM (I keep OS installations up to date as part of my job, and I know that this sort of thing happens a LOT), or otherwise change the rules, then my product is worthless.

I'm a moderate customer of pdfs at best - about $100 over the last couple of years. I've bought a bunch of SVGames' old AD&D ESDs, plus a handful of D20 supplements from rpgnow and Cryptosnark, and one from the White Wolf online store. My refusal to buy DRM stuff isn't going to drive anyone broke, but hey, it's my money and I decide what to do with it, and buying/renting something so poorly suited to what I want isn't on the list. Case in point - last week I was idly considering buying the Book of Hallowed Might, to see how it compared to Complete Divine. I'd never bought a Malhavoc product before, but I had just about decided to give it a go. Not any more. Witness the power of the free market (and my $5 or so) in action!

 

[johnsemlak]

ROTFLMAO! I cannot believe how many people took the time to vote on this just to say they would NOT buy stuff from DTRPG! I am going to email them the link to this message board. 388 nos vs. 59 yeses! 85% of people polled said they would not buy it!

Maybe then the will see how out of touch they are with potential customers!

I think your overestimating the impact seeing a poll like this will (or should) have on publishers or a vendor.

It would be very bad business to make decisions based on a poll on a public messageboard.

 

[johnsemlak]

1. You can do that with DTRPG
2. Well, if you backup the pdf purchased from DTRPG on another drive or disk, you're not screwed. (Not counting any possible limits to number of machines that can be registered--I'll concede that's a possible issue.)
3. I've been to both sites. DTRPG is slow, but it's not bad. I've never thought RPGNow's website was all that great, personally. All a matter of opinion, though.
4. Your facts are wrong. With DTRPG, you register with them (as you do with RPGNow). You have an extra reg with Adobe. That's it. PayPal is not required. Regular credit cards can be used, just as with RPGNow.
5. First-time registration with DTRPG takes about 10 minutes. Not like it takes a huge amount of time, as you imply.
6. Can't argue that.

Don't get me wrong, you have good arguments. But I heard a lot of gripes with DTRPG that don't seem to be accurate (like having to use MS Passport, PayPal, not being able to print--a whole lot of stuff). Just want to help get all the right facts straight.

Of course, that doesn't deal with those having technical difficulties, but that's not surprising with any new venture like this.

I think this analysis pretty sums up my view as well.

I'd prefer non-DRM products, but I'm just not that bothered about it. Plus, I see the value of DTRPG's products that were previously unavailable at all in PDF format.

I think a lot of mainstream customers aren't that bothered, and DTRPG seems to be going after a more mainstream crowd. So, the business sence of the operation may not be as bad as some believe.

 

[2WS-Steve]

I think a lot of mainstream customers aren't that bothered, and DTRPG seems to be going after a more mainstream crowd. So, the business sence of the operation may not be as bad as some believe.

But mainstream customers are also wary of technologies with shadowy limitations and restrictions. The restrictions at RPGNow and coming soon at e23 are all perfectly transparent.

The limitations of DTRPG products aren't defined on their site, are draconian if you look at the Adobe page that DTRPG points you to for more information, and may very well come back to haunt the early adopters a year or so from now if they find out that DTRPG had no plan in place for dealing with an Adobe revamp of the DRM system or the customer upgraded to a new computer.

 

[Bagpuss]

If they can make it easier for vendors to print them for customers like me, I won't have a problem with the additional copy protection.

JediSoth

You know their best idea would be to let the price of buying PDF be discounted from buying the print version of the book. You can bet they would shift more print product with that method (of course that would piss off their retailers). But an offer like that would get me over my dislike of DRM and solve most folks printing problems.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

"Bye, bye, my baby goodbye"

My answer is no.

Sad to see Malhavoc fly away from me. I bought all of Malhavoc pdf before, but now those days are over. I do hope they all find themselves as printed books in future too. Too bad, that means waiting 3 extra months, oh well.

Oh, and Malhavoc pdf:s had quality too. Sniff. They are actually printable.

Then some ranty-rant...

DTRGP is waste of my time. I've run into that format couple of time and it has always ended badly for me. I don't like pdf:s so much to start with, and I dislike using adobe for them even more. Also, DTRGP steals away those properties I like to have pdf in the first place besides my printed books. And people with such problems start to view crackers as their saviours. I mean, I certainly do.

I have cracks for most games I own (unless I play at battle net), because I dislike having to have cd in my drive when I play. Or having to take one out just to play another game, put it on table, and incidently someone (or one of my cats) jumps. drops it, to floor it goes, and cd might become unreadbe after that. I dislike registerations, activations and other such net-spying.
It's enough my operating system does stuff I don't want it to do behind my back. For those interested in windows services and what they actually do, here is good link for information.
http://www.blackviper.com/

And so on, I like my conviniance. so my conclusion is.
I think I will ignore this whole thing with best of my ability and come back when it has gone away, which I hope will happen. If it doesn't I either shy away from digital publishing or head for the thief alleys.

I probably still get some pdf:s form rpgnow as I have before.

 

[Buttercup]

So you want to track my use of your product on my PC, or say get a list of all activated DRM PDFs on my machine. I don't think so.

Exactly. Why in the world would I give anyone access to the contents of my hard drive? If I were ok with that, I'd use p2p software. (Well, no I wouldn't. There is also the theft issue. But you get my drift.) I am far from a techno-goddess. But I know enough to be extremely suspicious of the "safety" of Microsoft passport. Sure, I could register with Adobe instead, but why should I trust them either?

The above questions leave aside the other major issue, which is that I'm being sold a product with crippled features becasuse someone else is dishonest. This isn't a business model designed to make your customers feel valued.

 

[Tsyr]

The above questions leave aside the other major issue, which is that I'm being sold a product with crippled features becasuse someone else is dishonest. This isn't a business model designed to make your customers feel valued.

Ahh, but you don't get it, Buttercup. We've been told several times we don't matter. We aren't the intended customers now, despite having been the the existing customers.

It doesn't matter that it's broken, crippled, and invase. Because if you don't like it, clearly, you aren't the intended customer. Despite wanting the product, despite having the money to buy the product, and the desire to have the product, if we aren't willing to pay money for something that is broken, inconvienient, crippled, ineffective, annoying, time-limited, non-replaceable, and invasive, we aren't the intended customer.

See? It all makes perfect sense.

Once your insane.