Winter IrondDM (Winner)!
Quickbeam
Explorer
Incognito:
I appreciate the short explanation regarding my victory vs. Howandwhy99, but I'd like a little feedback please. I realize that this competition will be judged in a manner similar to those previous, but I've only been critiqued by Nemmerle and there are differences bewteen you. Hearing a few of your thoughts is vital to my chances at success in this tournament, so please post some remarks -- or email them to me if that's more preferable.
Mythago:
I really had no intention of creating a story that long or involved, but things got away from me somehow. Then, once the initial draft was complete I was unable to effectively reduce the story's length through editing without ruining the overall product. So I left it as my longest Iron DM entry to date. I promise to be more mind to my keyboard in future rounds
.
Exposition will follow later today!
I appreciate the short explanation regarding my victory vs. Howandwhy99, but I'd like a little feedback please. I realize that this competition will be judged in a manner similar to those previous, but I've only been critiqued by Nemmerle and there are differences bewteen you. Hearing a few of your thoughts is vital to my chances at success in this tournament, so please post some remarks -- or email them to me if that's more preferable.
Mythago:
I really had no intention of creating a story that long or involved, but things got away from me somehow. Then, once the initial draft was complete I was unable to effectively reduce the story's length through editing without ruining the overall product. So I left it as my longest Iron DM entry to date. I promise to be more mind to my keyboard in future rounds
.Exposition will follow later today!
Majicthise
First Post
Congratulations, Quickbeam!
I found your entry to be really cool, and enjoyed the use of jackalweres (hadn't thought of them since I was like 11 or something). Good luck in the next round.
I found your entry to be really cool, and enjoyed the use of jackalweres (hadn't thought of them since I was like 11 or something). Good luck in the next round.
incognito
First Post
Round1, Set 2 addendum:
An individual analysis of Quickbeam’s submission.
Quickbeam sets up not so much a mini adventure, but a chance for characters to become embroiled with 4 political factions: The 3 cities (2 human, 1 dwarven), and the Orc tribes separating the 3. His main NPC, Faroun, is a bright, evil, scheming conniver –he is by far Quickbeam’s best element in this submission. Also, he gives us DM an alternate, to the to the Standard Doppelganger Plot. I am all in favor of creatures, especially recurring enemies with high flavor, and the JackalWere fits the bill…to bad it’s not an ingredient, eh?
Let’s talk about ingredient use. Of the six, The two outstanding ingredients are The Dolphin King (a fine name for a vessel), also a good place to have enoughter, and find clues to the root of the adventure, Also, the clever use of all around vision as a plot device to drive the gaze attacking villain’s quest – even if the villain id in error about it (especially because he is in error about it!). This, if you ask me, is a better obvious snafu. Faroun and his cronies have created all this mess to attain a magic item that won’t help them all that much.
I’m less impressed with Quickbeam’s actual snafu. It many NOT be obvious to players that raiding orcs for Worgs may drive the orc bands into war with the towns, unless they are socio-politically aware. And there are not enough pointers detailed in the story hour to indicate that they would be. Also, I would’ve expected the tribes to be goblin, not orc – since goblins are the Worgs traditional riders, but it’s just a personal preference. The use of the keen scythe, does not impact me either way – I am neutral about it. I like the fact that Quickbeam was clever enough to make it a scythe the paladin used, rather than a sword, confusing the issue further, but having an Iron Golem wielding it going to casue problems. For those players who are not familiar with the Iron golem, it’s inclusion in the 4-6th level adventure, could spell instant, and ugly death (DC 17 Fort save or Die). As long as Quickbeam was breaking out creatures not in the MM, or MM2 in 3E, he could’ve easily used some animated, Iron object, that was more CR appropriate. I’m also a little bummed about the major expatriate NPC, ‘Crattus Irvee’ – this plot hook struck me as weak. Crattus was living in peace with the dwarves, was suddenly imprisoned, and then escapes – his first thought is to question the authorities in Corwyn? I can see him hiring the PCs to free his family, but not to be motivated enough to try and end hostilities. We are not given enough background detail on Crattus, to see that such a thing is in his character.
More positives, and negatives. Quickbeam has given us a wealth of NPCs to play with, like shiny new toys. They are detailed enough to breathe life into, but still open enough for use to customize to fit any game – I’m impressed. Also, his mini-world is internally consistent, which id actually quite a difficult thing to do when you create multiple political factions. And I’d be the first to jibe him about if, if there were holes. The sheer number of NPCs means those of you who read these adventures can pull **something** out of this submission, and get value from it.
There are a few remaining gripes. The first, is meta-level. Quickbeam, once you submit, your ARE NOT allowed to edit, for any reason, your submission. Had the entries been close in this round, you’d have lost due to this. Also, with a nod to mythago, your entry was over long. While I love detail, and interesting NPCs, this beast could have been cut down by a 1/3 or ¼ quarter, and retained all of it’s value. Keep it in mind for future rounds.
In short, although this submission was not brilliant about it’s incorporation of the ingredients, it was interesting, and well thought out. It need length refinement, and some though about encounters to make it a master piece.
Your exposition is awaited by your fans, Quickbeam!
An individual analysis of Quickbeam’s submission.
Quickbeam sets up not so much a mini adventure, but a chance for characters to become embroiled with 4 political factions: The 3 cities (2 human, 1 dwarven), and the Orc tribes separating the 3. His main NPC, Faroun, is a bright, evil, scheming conniver –he is by far Quickbeam’s best element in this submission. Also, he gives us DM an alternate, to the to the Standard Doppelganger Plot. I am all in favor of creatures, especially recurring enemies with high flavor, and the JackalWere fits the bill…to bad it’s not an ingredient, eh?
Let’s talk about ingredient use. Of the six, The two outstanding ingredients are The Dolphin King (a fine name for a vessel), also a good place to have enoughter, and find clues to the root of the adventure, Also, the clever use of all around vision as a plot device to drive the gaze attacking villain’s quest – even if the villain id in error about it (especially because he is in error about it!). This, if you ask me, is a better obvious snafu. Faroun and his cronies have created all this mess to attain a magic item that won’t help them all that much.
I’m less impressed with Quickbeam’s actual snafu. It many NOT be obvious to players that raiding orcs for Worgs may drive the orc bands into war with the towns, unless they are socio-politically aware. And there are not enough pointers detailed in the story hour to indicate that they would be. Also, I would’ve expected the tribes to be goblin, not orc – since goblins are the Worgs traditional riders, but it’s just a personal preference. The use of the keen scythe, does not impact me either way – I am neutral about it. I like the fact that Quickbeam was clever enough to make it a scythe the paladin used, rather than a sword, confusing the issue further, but having an Iron Golem wielding it going to casue problems. For those players who are not familiar with the Iron golem, it’s inclusion in the 4-6th level adventure, could spell instant, and ugly death (DC 17 Fort save or Die). As long as Quickbeam was breaking out creatures not in the MM, or MM2 in 3E, he could’ve easily used some animated, Iron object, that was more CR appropriate. I’m also a little bummed about the major expatriate NPC, ‘Crattus Irvee’ – this plot hook struck me as weak. Crattus was living in peace with the dwarves, was suddenly imprisoned, and then escapes – his first thought is to question the authorities in Corwyn? I can see him hiring the PCs to free his family, but not to be motivated enough to try and end hostilities. We are not given enough background detail on Crattus, to see that such a thing is in his character.
More positives, and negatives. Quickbeam has given us a wealth of NPCs to play with, like shiny new toys. They are detailed enough to breathe life into, but still open enough for use to customize to fit any game – I’m impressed. Also, his mini-world is internally consistent, which id actually quite a difficult thing to do when you create multiple political factions. And I’d be the first to jibe him about if, if there were holes. The sheer number of NPCs means those of you who read these adventures can pull **something** out of this submission, and get value from it.
There are a few remaining gripes. The first, is meta-level. Quickbeam, once you submit, your ARE NOT allowed to edit, for any reason, your submission. Had the entries been close in this round, you’d have lost due to this. Also, with a nod to mythago, your entry was over long. While I love detail, and interesting NPCs, this beast could have been cut down by a 1/3 or ¼ quarter, and retained all of it’s value. Keep it in mind for future rounds.
In short, although this submission was not brilliant about it’s incorporation of the ingredients, it was interesting, and well thought out. It need length refinement, and some though about encounters to make it a master piece.
Your exposition is awaited by your fans, Quickbeam!
Last edited:
howandwhy99
Adventurer
The Legend of Rianna (Narnia anagram) IS The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe Revisited. It was never meant to be otherwise. All of the characters were either masks of or directly taken from characters in the book to subtly hint at its nature. [Mr. Tumnus the Faun and Mr & Mrs Beaver are actual characters, the Ice Witch is the Ice Queen or Witch, and the Dolphin King (to be named Lansa - another anagram) was the golden lion Aslan - king of kings.] C.S. Lewis did this himself, laying subtle symbolism over the top of bible stories and characters.
Many other hints are also in the text. Clive Staples is the C.S. of C.S. Lewis, Jack being his nickname. The lantern is the lamppost. Talking wolves (worgs) comprised much of the Ice Queen's army in the original story. The petrification wand was in the original story. Turkish Delight is alluded to as a drugged sweet. The blade that killed Aslan became the scythe. The table is taken directly from the book. The Queen's crown became her all-around viewing tiara. The children grow up as they learn life lessons. The potential for a great battle at the end. The rebirth of the king. All of these are meant to feed the desires of those who liked the original series.
In fact, the only major difference in terms of flavor was the appearance of a Dolphin at the end of the story. This was the obvious snafu. While other parts of the storyline were rearranged in order to keep the players guessing, (the rebellion of Rogna, the means by which the characters grew up) the adventure was written to allow fans to relive the book. It is not a retelling of the tale in the way many of the old Dragonlance adventures were. It is open-ended and has definite differences that could allow for a lot of variety when gaming through the majority of the story. While not for purists, it resembles more of a "Return to" adventure where the original was in novel form. If I could have included all 6 ingredients without changing the original story, I would have done so. (and maybe dispensed with the subtle allusions)
I really appreciate being able to compete in Iron DM. It's one of my favorite things about ENWorld and I do respect those who run it. I have read the linked-to rules for the contest by Nemmerle and, for the life of me, I cannot find where adventure scenarios are required to be original. I'm sorry if this is an error on my part. I worked pretty hard on this and (knowing I was up against the current reigning Iron DM) was mostly looking for critique of the work. If anyone else has comments or critique, I do appreciate it.
I really would like to compete in another contest with more original material. I hope those who are fans of Lewis can use this for their own adventures. Sorry for the mix up.
Many other hints are also in the text. Clive Staples is the C.S. of C.S. Lewis, Jack being his nickname. The lantern is the lamppost. Talking wolves (worgs) comprised much of the Ice Queen's army in the original story. The petrification wand was in the original story. Turkish Delight is alluded to as a drugged sweet. The blade that killed Aslan became the scythe. The table is taken directly from the book. The Queen's crown became her all-around viewing tiara. The children grow up as they learn life lessons. The potential for a great battle at the end. The rebirth of the king. All of these are meant to feed the desires of those who liked the original series.
In fact, the only major difference in terms of flavor was the appearance of a Dolphin at the end of the story. This was the obvious snafu. While other parts of the storyline were rearranged in order to keep the players guessing, (the rebellion of Rogna, the means by which the characters grew up) the adventure was written to allow fans to relive the book. It is not a retelling of the tale in the way many of the old Dragonlance adventures were. It is open-ended and has definite differences that could allow for a lot of variety when gaming through the majority of the story. While not for purists, it resembles more of a "Return to" adventure where the original was in novel form. If I could have included all 6 ingredients without changing the original story, I would have done so. (and maybe dispensed with the subtle allusions)
I really appreciate being able to compete in Iron DM. It's one of my favorite things about ENWorld and I do respect those who run it. I have read the linked-to rules for the contest by Nemmerle and, for the life of me, I cannot find where adventure scenarios are required to be original. I'm sorry if this is an error on my part. I worked pretty hard on this and (knowing I was up against the current reigning Iron DM) was mostly looking for critique of the work. If anyone else has comments or critique, I do appreciate it.
I really would like to compete in another contest with more original material. I hope those who are fans of Lewis can use this for their own adventures. Sorry for the mix up.
incognito
First Post
howandwhy99: As I mentioned in my original judgement, I do not want to see you vilified. In my mind, it was a mistake, and a costly one - and I ultimately feel that it was a mistake that should have been avoided, hence my decision.
You are certainly welcome to compete again. As for critique. It IS very close to the C.S. Lewis book. Ingredient use, originality, and playability critique is meaningless, because the story is not yours, it's his.
Others may disagree. If they critique your submission, I ask that they email you privately with it.
Love to hear your thoughts in this thread (likes and dislikes), as the story hour moves forward. I assure you - no hard feelings.
You are certainly welcome to compete again. As for critique. It IS very close to the C.S. Lewis book. Ingredient use, originality, and playability critique is meaningless, because the story is not yours, it's his.
Others may disagree. If they critique your submission, I ask that they email you privately with it.
Love to hear your thoughts in this thread (likes and dislikes), as the story hour moves forward. I assure you - no hard feelings.
Last edited:
Greybar
No Trouble at All
I'll throw in my two cents, since I made a snippy comment originally. I really have no desire to argue much beyond this, much less vilify the author.
When I first started reading it and ran into Tumnus the Faun I had an emotional reaction. I didn't like it one bit, no sir. As to remember growing up on Narnia, there was no mistaking it.
Upon reflection (and clearing head) it was obvious that this is what howandwhy99 intended. A tribute piece, if you will. If there had been a line at the beginning that said "In fondest memory of CS Lewis" or somesuch, I would have been somewhat mollified to begin and would not have had the initial strong negative reaction.
I am reminded of a author I heard interviewed once on NPR, who realized half-way through writing his new book that he had turned out something remarkably similar to The Count of Monte Cristo. In his horror he researched into it and found that Dumas had himself drawn on similar tales that had gone before. Does that make Dumas' classic tale this less?
I agree whole-heartedly with incognito's judgement on the matter of the contest. We all cannot help but draw upon all of our creative influences, but this was different. At it's best a clever tribute, with the time-honored anagramming for the knowing reader to enjoy.
John
p.s. now back to my Iron DM entry. I mean work, yes, I mean back to my work. Dadgum reality.
When I first started reading it and ran into Tumnus the Faun I had an emotional reaction. I didn't like it one bit, no sir. As to remember growing up on Narnia, there was no mistaking it.
Upon reflection (and clearing head) it was obvious that this is what howandwhy99 intended. A tribute piece, if you will. If there had been a line at the beginning that said "In fondest memory of CS Lewis" or somesuch, I would have been somewhat mollified to begin and would not have had the initial strong negative reaction.
I am reminded of a author I heard interviewed once on NPR, who realized half-way through writing his new book that he had turned out something remarkably similar to The Count of Monte Cristo. In his horror he researched into it and found that Dumas had himself drawn on similar tales that had gone before. Does that make Dumas' classic tale this less?
I agree whole-heartedly with incognito's judgement on the matter of the contest. We all cannot help but draw upon all of our creative influences, but this was different. At it's best a clever tribute, with the time-honored anagramming for the knowing reader to enjoy.
John
p.s. now back to my Iron DM entry. I mean work, yes, I mean back to my work. Dadgum reality.
Last edited:
Rune
Once A Fool
Howandwhy, I for one, appreciate your tribute as something intended to be fun and a bit of a bit of a meta-game -- in this case, seeing how many allusions to Lewis' richly metaphorical work you can fit in, or that we can spot.
Fair enough. But I can tell you (and everyone else) from personal experience, as all four of my losing Iron DM entrees to date have involved such indulgences, that most likely, your meta-game will cost you the round.
To clarify, I don't mean that my losses can be directly attributed to these types of games, but I certainly should have used the time to otherwise improve the entry. Keep in mind that I may not know what I'm talking about, but, as I've done fairly well in previous Iron DM tournaments, I like to imagine that I have a fairly good idea about at least some of it
Of course, armed with this knowledge, you'd think I'd stop, but, Hell. It helps make the round more interesting, in my opinion, which is just as important, or more important, than winning.
Fair enough. But I can tell you (and everyone else) from personal experience, as all four of my losing Iron DM entrees to date have involved such indulgences, that most likely, your meta-game will cost you the round.
To clarify, I don't mean that my losses can be directly attributed to these types of games, but I certainly should have used the time to otherwise improve the entry. Keep in mind that I may not know what I'm talking about, but, as I've done fairly well in previous Iron DM tournaments, I like to imagine that I have a fairly good idea about at least some of it
Of course, armed with this knowledge, you'd think I'd stop, but, Hell. It helps make the round more interesting, in my opinion, which is just as important, or more important, than winning.
Last edited:
Similar Threads
