D&D 5E Wish duplicating a spell - what level slot?

[Blue]

Quick rules question: Wish can be used to duplicate any spell of 8th level or lower without requirements like components. If it matters, what level slot is it considered cast with.

For instance, if it was used to duplicate Planar Binding, a 5th level spell. Would it the slot be undefined/the minimum, in which case it lasts 24 hours. Would it be 8th level (the maximum spell level known Wish can duplicate) in which case it lasts 180 days. Or is it based on the slot actually used for the Wish, so it would last for a year and a day?

EDIT: I made this a question thread instead of a normal one, so you can upvote and downvote for what you feel is correct or incorrect. Contribute even if you don't have more to say.

 

[Mort]

Classic natural language at work.

A "spell" really has two meanings; one is the construct that the caster prepares or knows, which has a fixed base level. The second is the particular instance of that spell created by casting, which has a level based on the spell slot expended.

So "the spell magic missile" can mean two things. It's the spell the caster has prepared, which is 1st level, but it's also any individual casting of that spell, which can be any level for which the caster has spell slots.

So basically, it's a complete tossup as to whether the "duplicate any other spell of 8th level or below" refers to the rules construct object that is prepared/known by the caster, or to an individual casting. I'd rule the latter, because it's wish and upscaled lower level spells are generally inferior anyway.

While I can see that, and yes, natural language has these kind of pitfalls - to me, it doesn't have to be that complicated.

1. Cast wish;
2. Pick a spell;
3 if desired pick a level for that spell, up to 8th(since any spell can be cast at any level above it's minimum level).

Is that the be all, end all explanation? Certainly not, but it makes sense to me and seems to be a both a fair and liberal way to enterpret it. So that's what it is at my table.

 

[TwoSix]

While I can see that, and yes, natural language has these kind of pitfalls - to me, it doesn't have to be that complicated.

1. Cast wish;
2. Pick a spell;
3 if desired pick a level for that spell, up to 8th(since any spell can be cast at any level above it's minimum level).

Is that the be all, end all explanation? Certainly not, but it makes sense to me and seems to be a both a fair and liberal way to enterpret it. So that's what it is at my table.

100% agree. Also the way I would rule it.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

You can cast the spell being duplicated as any level from its own base level up to level eight, because any of those is a spell of level 8 or lower that exists.


Even in the face of such authority I certainly think it's reasonable, based on the wording of Wish, for a DM to potentially rule otherwise, and not allow upcasting. But I don't think that really jives with how the game generally treats upcasting. Also never forget that this whole casting lesser spells is just a way for the game to represent wishing for whatever you want without it becoming unmanageable, and having whatever you want be upcast a bit hardly seems gamebreaking when they already get to skip the material components and drop long casting times. Wish is supposed to be a bit broken; that is the lore of Wish.

I would caution a DM tempted to not allow upcasting to double-check if they have any reason to do so beyond enforcing their first glance reading of the spell, and if they do have a reason then to triple check that they are not laying down a general ruling on how the spell can work to deal with a very specific problem unlikely to recur.

 

[Rabulias]

In theory, a standard 8th level spell should be roughly equivalent to any other spell upcast into an 8th level slot. I generally find that upcasting yields weaker results than a standard spell of the same level. Expending your 9th level slot to duplicate a lower-level spell and hamstringing it further by upcasting is not going to be overpowered. With this in mind, and the fact that it is a wish, I would allow wish to duplicate the casting of any spell upcast up to 8th level.