D&D 5E Wizard's at will damage cantrips concern

[GMforPowergamers]

Mana pools are near-ubiquitous in modern RPGs. When I try to think of a true at-will mechanic in video games, one example comes to mind - good ol' 80s shoot-em-ups.

so then why has at will magic gotten group with video games and not movies, tv, and books?

 

[Ichneumon]

so then why has at will magic gotten group with video games and not movies, tv, and books?

This deserves more thought than I can comfortably give during work time. Will come back to it later on.

 

[Mistwell]

]

He does use magic, but he shouldn't have an endless supply like on a video game.

Pew pew.

You know where else they have an endless supply usually?

Books.

Otheres rightly mentioned Merlin and Dresden. Do you recall Harry Potter ever saying he needed to rest 8 hours before he could cast another spell? Gandalf?

Vancian magic is the extreme aberration for novels, not the norm. And Vancian magic KILLED, with almost every spell, no save.

Pew Pew indeed. I get it, you want to insult the thing you dislike for D&D, so you use that derogatory phrase. But the truth is, Vancian magic is a somewhat silly balance-induced form of magic which doesn't match the verisimilitude of 99% of the genre in the novels that inspired the concept of a magic user.

 

[Minigiant]

This is why I would make their supplemental damage come from subclass.


Mage (wizard) uses cantrips. 2 bonus cantrips.
Mage (battlemage) uses weapons. Bonus damage to mage weapons.
Mage (magic user) uses slot spells. Bonus levels to Arcane Recovery
Mage (trickster) gets a reduced sneak attack
Mage (blood mage) uses slots. Pay HP to restore slots.

 

[Ichneumon]

so then why has at will magic gotten group with video games and not movies, tv, and books?

From what I've observed, some people (emphasis on 'some') equated the no-delay abilities in popular games like World of Warcraft - the icons that let you keep clicking them with no cooldown. Of course, on closer inspection the analogy leaks like a bullet-ridden bucket. "At-will" abilities in video games are typically linked to a mana pool, limiting how much they can actually be clicked within a time period before having to wait a bit. This is ironic, given that the chief complaints from at-will opponents concern 'infinite resources'.

Another important difference is that in D&D, the at-will spell caster has to wait till everyone else has had their turn before casting another at-will. Contrary to rumour, it's not "PEW-PEW', it's "PEW-wait-PEW". I've never heard of a video game which operates like this. Video game abilities with a delay/cooldown on them are about the closest you can get, but those are usually tied to mana pools as well.

So I think at-will magic has become related to video games because a) those have a bigger mindshare compared to books than they did 10-20 years ago, and b) a few folks noticed a superficial similarity between icons that let you keep clicking & at-will spells, yelled very loudly, and the comparison stuck.

 

[Lokiare]

From what I've observed, some people (emphasis on 'some') equated the no-delay abilities in popular games like World of Warcraft - the icons that let you keep clicking them with no cooldown. Of course, on closer inspection the analogy leaks like a bullet-ridden bucket. "At-will" abilities in video games are typically linked to a mana pool, limiting how much they can actually be clicked within a time period before having to wait a bit. This is ironic, given that the chief complaints from at-will opponents concern 'infinite resources'.

Another important difference is that in D&D, the at-will spell caster has to wait till everyone else has had their turn before casting another at-will. Contrary to rumour, it's not "PEW-PEW', it's "PEW-wait-PEW". I've never heard of a video game which operates like this. Video game abilities with a delay/cooldown on them are about the closest you can get, but those are usually tied to mana pools as well.

So I think at-will magic has become related to video games because a) those have a bigger mindshare compared to books than they did 10-20 years ago, and b) a few folks noticed a superficial similarity between icons that let you keep clicking & at-will spells, yelled very loudly, and the comparison stuck.

Yes, I remember when 4E used to be compared to an MMO. Then I also remembered when 3.5E was compared to Diablo.

Those kinds of comparisons all fall flat and should be avoided.

 

[TwoSix]

Personally, I don't have a problem with it, but I'm the kind of guy who doesn't require players to track ammo either. Saying that no one would take utility cantrips over damage cantrips is a bit like saying no one would ever take Water Breathing over Fireball. There might be some general truth to it, but what's the alternative? Siloing attack and utility spells into separate resource categories? I don't think that's too popular an alternative.

I don't think I've tracked ammo since 1994. Somewhere around there, at least, I believe I've also lost track of that. Tracking isn't my thing.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't think I've tracked ammo since 1994. Somewhere around there, at least, I believe I've also lost track of that. Tracking isn't my thing.

we only track ammo or components or rations when it matters.

going to a dungeon and back to town within a day or two, just hand wave it.

going into the pyrmde of shadows for 3 levels... everything counts.

wilderness adventure in the woods just hand wave it, you can make more/find some.

dessert adventure you track everything...

and all 4 of those you could be the same character in the same campaign...

 

[TwoSix]

we only track ammo or components or rations when it matters.

going to a dungeon and back to town within a day or two, just hand wave it.

going into the pyrmde of shadows for 3 levels... everything counts.

wilderness adventure in the woods just hand wave it, you can make more/find some.

dessert adventure you track everything...

and all 4 of those you could be the same character in the same campaign...

Yea, I just don't run adventures where they matter. (Although I would use the 4e Dark Sun rules for rations if I ran Dark Sun.) Players who make an issue about their arrows or food or whatever just end up "finding" an everfull quiver or one of those gruel-making spoons before long.