Wizards, Naruto, and Game Balance

[Masquerade]

I agree with you more than you probably realize. I know that I'm all about holding on to being a 12-year old for as long as I can, but nerds draw strange lines in the sand sometimes. It was just surprising to hear that a group recommended the show, rather than one player mentioning it, another one saying how Naruto's lame and _____ is better, and another one complaining about how Japan is the cancer that's killing America or something similar.

But Naruto is lame and _____ is better!

Seriously, though, I've been playing anime-inspired D&D for as long as I've been playing D&D. I'm not convinced age has a lot to do with it, but as a nineteen year old, I'm much closer in age to the aforementioned twelve year olds than I am to many of you, and I have never been afraid of anime influence in my D&D. The Naruto anime and manga are indeed an excellent example of what characters in D&D (and most other RPGs) should be--interesting, unique characters with cool powers that kill things and take their stuff. If 4e lets me do that better or in new ways, yay for 4e!

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

It seems to me that in most western fantasy literature, the truly powerfull characters are usually wizards. King Arthur is a powerfull fighter, but the limits of Merlin's powers are unknowable. Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas are larger than life... as long as Gandalf's not in the same room. Barak, Silk, and Hetar were heroes, but not of the world shattering power of Belgarath the Sorceror. Next to Elminster, even that dual scimitar wielding dark elf sems like a fairly ordinary guy.

Also consider that those characters wouldn't be considered PC's.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

From a 25 year old high school teacher:
Avatar=the AWESOME
I still think that an Avatar RPG would rock, but I'm kinda hoping that 4E makes some of that stuff possible.

I mentioned this in another thread, but there IS an Avatar RPG. The series was originally an all dragon-blooded Exalted campaign written up as a fantasy series by the creators then adjusted for the target age range when Nikolodeon showed interest. Basically it's a story-hour on TV with elements adjusted to be appropriate for kids.

EDIT: To actually get on tangent. I agree with raising the power of the fighting classes to match the casting classes at their own level. My only concern is that it shouldn't be styled as if what they do is magic in the same sense as a wizard. Sure let them make 100ft flying leaps or shrug off a giant's thrown boulder like a pebble while while clubbing it to death with its own torn out shinbone. But none of this shouting out the names of special attacks or using mystic geometry or gestural magic. At least not as a base assumption, let the players add that in if they want. Caster's make a production out of doing the impossible, fighting classes just do it

 

[Dragonblade]

I mentioned this in another thread, but there IS an Avatar RPG. The series was originally an all dragon-blooded Exalted campaign written up as a fantasy series by the creators then adjusted for the target age range when Nikolodeon showed interest. Basically it's a story-hour on TV with elements adjusted to be appropriate for kids.

That seems like urban legend to me. I could believe the Avatar creators are gamers, but I'd like to see proof of that. Can you cite an interview or something from them?

 

[Gloombunny]

EDIT: To actually get on tangent. I agree with raising the power of the fighting classes to match the casting classes at their own level. My only concern is that it shouldn't be styled as if what they do is magic in the same sense as a wizard. Sure let them make 100ft flying leaps or shrug off a giant's thrown boulder like a pebble while while clubbing it to death with its own torn out shinbone. But none of this shouting out the names of special attacks or using mystic geometry or gestural magic. At least not as a base assumption, let the players add that in if they want. Caster's make a production out of doing the impossible, fighting classes just do it

High level fighters should be Rock Lee?

Works for me.

 

[Goken100]

If you like Naruto, you should also check out Bleach. The show is a little bit more "adult" and it is a little more plot driven as opposed to Naruto which I feel is more character driven. But the magic system of "Kido" (i.e. spells) is nice. Zanpakuto are also a good example of items that essentially "level" with their wielders.

You beat me to it! Seriously, I love Naruto, but Bleach is so much more satisfiying because stuff actually happens in it. Even the filler episodes move quickly! I looked around to see if there's any RPG based on Bleach, but couldn't find anything. I think there are some great possibilities for classes: Shinigami, Quincy, Spiritual Human, Arrancar, Mod Soul, Vizard, etc. And in a similar way to Naruto, powerful characters in Bleach can be more physical like Ichigo or power-oriented like Ishida.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I actually prefer Naruto to Bleach. Bleach has a lot less strategy in its combat, and there is a lot more uniformity in power (Zanpakutou are very cool, and Mr. Kubo manages to make them unique, but when every character is either a sword user who can transform their weapon, a monster with a white mask, or both...). Also, it has a lot less satisfying of a plot (I hated the end to the Soul Society arc, and the revelations in the beginning of the next arc in the manga are just nonsensical), and I dislike on how much it relies on the "Ichigo is the hero because he just happens to be stronger than everyone else" narrative trap.

As a whole, I just think Naruto just tells a more interesting story.

But, I guess I am dragging this thread further off topic, so I should talk more about D&D...

One of my favorite things about Naruto is how a character might have a single supernatural gimmick, and then will combine that a lot of special training and technique to create a powerful fighting style. Neji Hyuga is a great example of this. His special Byakugan eyes, which can see a nearly 360 degree arc through walls and at great distance, are a special gift he inhereted from his bloodline, but he combines that gift with martial arts designed to exploit the strengths of his eyes. Presumably, other characters who possess the Byakugan would be able to do very different things with that talent, and since there are other such characters, Hinata and Hanabi, I imagine that there will be other ways of using the Byakugan than Neji's (I have only seen the official US manga and TV release, and am not looking for spoilers, so I would not know).

It would be great if such a character, who perfectly combines a single supernatural ability with mundane ability to create a superhuman effect, could actually be created with D&D rules. I am hoping that 4E will make it possible.

 

[DungeonMaester]

From a 25 year old high school teacher:
Avatar=the AWESOME
I still think that an Avatar RPG would rock, but I'm kinda hoping that 4E makes some of that stuff possible.

If there is a rpg based of him i'll play Fritz.

---Rusty

 

[Impeesa]

Having never seen any Naruto, I will now mentally substitute every instance of the name with Dragonball Z. I'm told the difference is largely superficial, especially for the purposes of this discussion. Anyway, I've always sort of wondered why more pen & paper RPGs didn't take this sort of approach. I really like the idea that higher level = more awesome, regardless of how it's expressed.

 

[Mad Mac]

Having never seen any Naruto, I will now mentally substitute every instance of the name with Dragonball Z. I'm told the difference is largely superficial, especially for the purposes of this discussion.

Heh. There's some truth to that, but some differences too. The thing that bugged me about Dragonball Z is that everyone had basically the same powers. It was like watching a roomfull of Superman clones square off with each other every week. The main thing that Naruto does do well is that it gives every character a gimmik that it then spins it into an largely unique fighting style. The show can be juvenile (It is aimed at kids after all) but it's a goldmine of yoinkable fighting character ideas.