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Women who Roleplay at Convetions: Stalking Incidents?

mythago

Hero
Hm, I thought that thing about "men are more extreme" had be debunked. But that's for a sociobiology thread. :)

Most women I know have been subject to some harassing behavior, but not to the extent that the Japanese women you describe have.

It's no surprise that gaming or SFcon culture reflects that of the larger culture--in the US, at least, we are really just developing cultural mores that see assertiveness in women, and less-than-aggressive behavior in men, as normal and acceptable.
 

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Larry Fitz

First Post
If I were unattached I would probably be very attentive to Dragongirl if I met her at a con(not top pick on you, but you seem to have a reasonably thick skin). She's attractive and judging by her posts both intelligent and funny(I'm assuming that comes through in conversation with her as well). But at what point does being attentive become "stalking"? Certainly we've all heard stories where people met and at first could not stand each other, only to become close later after they've gotten to know each other. I guess my main point of contention is that people seem more interested in instant gratification, love or lust at first sight, as it were. A friend of mine had a theory on social behavior "All people tend to repeat behaviors that work for them, until they fail spectacularly." I have modified that to "People repeat behaviors, whether they succeed or not, till they fail spectacularly." I believe people behave in patterns, that most guys behave in a certain pattern of trying to attract companionship. Part of the problem I believe is that we no longer learn socialization from previous generations, we learn it from Aaron Spelling and George Lucas. We are inundated with images of people meeting, talking glibly for a few minutes and then beginning an intimate relationship (with occasional "responsible" people seen using condoms). Teenagers who try and emulate this behavior are not learning useful socialization tools because they are forgetting one element, they are not TV and movie stars and girls/women are not going to treat them like they are; because these girls/women are shown images of women having these instant relationships with very attractive men, and if they see any average looking guys, they are background players, or comic relief. Yes this is an oversimplification but it's leading me to this: RPG's are a test ground for socializing behaviors. The idea that the cool people don't play RPG's is bull. The coolest people I know do game. The most attractive people I've known either game or at least have tried gaming. Attractive gamers seem rare because really attractive people are rare. That is because we have raised our expectations of what makes a really attractive person to unrealistic degrees. We can use RPG's as a tool to help each other in this regard. If a PC attempts to make whoopee with an NPC but uses a lame behavior to get there, let them know that, discuss it, share what works and what doesn't work. After all these so-called creepy gamer guys must be playing with someone, no? If they aren't all just playing with each other maybe we can help them elevate their skills to the point where when someone like Nicole let's them buy her a coke, they can talk to her and begin a correspondence that leads to a friendly relationship and perhaps more, rather then them becoming the punch line to a story about the horrors of idiot gamers at cons... (at least it was a Coke, not a Pepsi or <shudder> a Code:Red).

For the record I am dating a beautiful woman gamer (My third in a row over a course of ten years), but more important than being either beautiful or a gamer, she makes me thrilled to be me and to be with her. Jen may accompany me to Boston Game day, and we will certainly both be at GenCon, where if anyone stalks her, I may have an enlightened conversation with them and suggest both other tactics and another object of desire. On the other hand I may just intimidate them, after all I'm not perfect either....
 

jdavis

First Post
I really hate the stereotypes that go on with these type of stories. I don't think you can say that this is a gaming convention problem, it's probably a problem that happens at almost any type of convention. You get alot of guys together and give them alcohol, then walk women in front of them and you are bound to have some problems. I think women are alot safer at the average gaming convention than they are at a College Frat party. Alot of geeks and nerds don't know how to act around women but they are generally harmless, they annoy men and women both, they just don't have good social skills.

I've noticed that alot of times a woman thinks it's stalking just because she isn't attracted to the man. I have been accused of stalking just because I have been nice to a person before, you live in the same college dorm with somebody and you have classes with them does not make you a stalker when you say hello ( yes I am always following you, we are going from the same building to the same class at the same time.), I found that the simple act of cutting my hair short changed me from a wierdo stalker to that nice guy who opens the door for women and says "hi" in the hallway. I never let it bother me too much because bad things do happen, and it better to be safe than to worry about hurting somebodies feelings. I have known girls who were dating guys who were stalking them, they didn't find out till they tried to break up with them. I have seen all sorts of problems, as has anybody who has ever been to college, but I can't remember any problems like that at a gaming convention, most of the time it is just some goofy guy who wants to tell you about his favorite dinosaur or how he likes the same anime that is on your shirt, he isn't a sexual predator just a goofball with limited social skills. Now if a 'roided up Football player comes up to you and gives you a open beer, watch out.

My knowledge of Japanese culture is limited but by everything I have heard they have alot more problems there with this sort of thing. It's hard to imagine a culture with more sexual repression than America but they may have us beat.

Edit: I have a friend who doesn't like to game with women because he says that it makes everybody act funny if a woman is there (we are all thirty somethings, most of us have children and are married or in long term relationships).
 
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Sanackranib

First Post
encouragement

I hope that the fact that we are seeing so many inteligently phrased posts here from the guys will serve as some sort of encouragement to all of us (guys and gals) not all gamers are malajusted socially or geeks or . . . anything ( excet they all are gamers) this is true in other areas of life as well and most women are probable pretty safe at a game con. just use the same common sence that you would use everywhere else. the world isn't a safe place, so go with friends, stay in lit areas and don't be afraid to make a scene and call security or screem for help if there is a problem. these same "rules" apply to us guys too although most of us don't think about them. so get out there and meet new people, socialize and interact with your fellow gamers. I think that you will find that you have a lot in common with most of them ;)
 

Nikchick

Explorer
Piratecat said:
Darn it! Nicole, this just made my stalking of you and Chris a lot less funny. My apologies for that.

No worries whatsoever, PC. If you'd been a real stalker, you wouldn't have been the least embarrassed by that episode in the elevator at GenCon. Guys like you are the least of my worries! :D

Nicole
 


Agnostic Paladin

First Post
My DM's wife is to this day unwilling to have a go at playing D&D with us because of an incident when she was younger (she's comfortable with and supportive of his playing though). The first (and only) time she tried D&D, the other three players (adolescent males) had their characters attack and rape her character.
 

mythago

Hero
Certainly we've all heard stories where people met and at first could not stand each other, only to become close later after they've gotten to know each other.

We've also all heard stories about people who don't take no for an answer, because they think "no" means "keep bugging me until I say yes, then we'll live happily ever after." I don't think it's promoting instant gratification to say that stalking someone until s/he falls for you is creepy, not romantic.

If you're attentive to someone attractive, you can politely ask them out for coffee, say. It beats following them around and getting in their face, and perhaps interrupting SOME OTHER person who might be attentive to them. Just a thought.
 


Andy Kitkowski

First Post
Re: Re: Women who Roleplay at Convetions: Stalking Incidents?

Umbran said:
You realize, of course, that this won't get you a very accurate portrayal of the phenomenon... What you get by this sort of polling is a bunch of anecdotal accounts, not an accurate accounting of how frequently this sort of thing happens...

I'm not going for sociological research data, I'm actually going for anecdotal evidence- the more "firsthand" the better. I, like the other gentleman who lived in Japan, was shocked by the number of women who had stalking incidents at manga conventions (like the Comiket or other manga/anime conventions) or game conventions (most of which are small or slightly-below-average size to our standards).

I had never heard of such incidents in my informal polling, and just wanted to throw out some fishing nets, as it were, and see if I could catch any such stalking stories at all.

That's about all I was going for. I'm not going to draw sweeping conclusions or definitive deductions from these anecdotes, other than just to say, "Well, I guess it DOES happen over here, too".

Thanks again to everyone for their input!

BTW, if anyone's interested in the "Gaming in Japan" thing, here's a link to some articles I wrote over at PTGPTB:

http://ptgptb.org/0019/japan1.html
http://ptgptb.org/0020/japan2.html
http://ptgptb.org/0021/japan3.html
 

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