WotC World Reveal of Baldur's Gate 3

At PAX East today, gameplay footage of Baldur's Gate 3 was revealed for the first time by Larian Studios.

According to PC Gamer, the Early Access version of the game will launch this year with five characters:

• Wyll, Human Warlock
• Shadowheart, Half-elf Cleric
• Lae'zel, Githyanki Fighter
• Gale, Human Wizard
• Astarion, Elven Vampire Spawn Rogue

And you'll be able to create characters using these six classes:

• Fighter (Battle Master, Eldritch Knight)
• Wizard (Evocation, Abjuration)
• Rogue (Arcane Trickster, Thief)
• Ranger (Hunter, Beast Master)
• Cleric (Life, Light, Trickery)
• Warlock (Fiend, Great One)

15 races include (amongst others):

• Elves
• Dwarves
• Humans
• Githyanki
• Drow
• Tieflings
• Vampire Spawn

 

[Burnside]

What worries me is that I got bored with Divinity 2 and gave up after maybe 4 hours of total play. The reason was NOT turn-based combat (which was great). It was because the dialogue was pretty badly written and the story didn't really hook me.

I'm worried that I get the same feeling about the writing here. The dialogue seems quite clunky; in particular, God bless the voice actor who plays the wizard, who is doing his level best to deliver those awkward, FR-reference-choked lines. In general there are just a lot of lines that a real person just wouldn't say. "I am hoping that whatever is behind this door holds some answers." Nobody asking each other if anyone knows where they are, etc.

And it does bother me that it starts with a group of characters (pick which one is you) who have all just been in an airship crash. I actually find it kind of alarming that they would re-use that EXACT same idea from their last game.

 

[Ristamar]

I'm genuinely shocked so many people are unflinchingly married and faithful to RTwP. It's a half-in, half-out solution that doesn't provide the best features of the primary alternatives (ARPG or turn-based strategy).

I can somewhat empathize with those that feel the tone of the writing may not align with the old games. The chances of that ever happening were slim to none, even if Bioware or Obsidian were handling the IP.

 

[wicked cool]

wasn't divinity 2 a huge success? This appears to only improve the process.

 

[charlesatan]

I can somewhat empathize with those that feel the tone of the writing may not align with the old games. The chances of that ever happening were slim to none, even if Bioware or Obsidian were handling the IP.

Well, that and maybe that the writing in the first place was horrible. We just got older (and hopefully wiser), so we're able to spot bad writing better, while the past is twinged with notalgia.

 

[Burnside]

This is definitely true. But in the intervening years, we have seen plenty of games with good writing. Standards have changed, and this game should meet them.

 

[Gladius Legis]

I think the RTwP adherents are too attached to their memories of BG 1 and 2, NWN 1 and 2, etc. without thinking at all about the inherent limitations and lack of depth of those combat systems.

Those games' combats all took place on an infinite 2D plane. Terrain was nonexistent. Movement and positioning were irrelevant. Combat was let the two sides run into each other and roll dice in the background. In those games, RTwP made sense.

Based on what we've seen from BG3, where vertical positioning and movement are in fact relevant, terrain is a thing, environments factor into the combat (and exploration), full turn-based is pretty much essential.

 

[slobster]

Also, this thread is making me really want to play the original Divinity games (which I never have before). So that's a plus!

 

[Horwath]

I think the RTwP adherents are too attached to their memories of BG 1 and 2, NWN 1 and 2, etc. without thinking at all about the inherent limitations and lack of depth of those combat systems.

Those games' combats all took place on an infinite 2D plane. Terrain was nonexistent. Movement and positioning were irrelevant. Combat was let the two sides run into each other and roll dice in the background. In those games, RTwP made sense.

Based on what we've seen from BG3, where vertical positioning and movement are in fact relevant, terrain is a thing, environments factor into the combat (and exploration), full turn-based is pretty much essential.

I see many times this "lack of depth" in TRwP, and I do not see why it is mentioned at all.

What depth can you have in TB that you cannot have in RT? Assuming that the game is made to same complexity level.

If you make mechanically simple game, no type of combat system will save it from being easy and simple.

 

[Gladius Legis]

I see many times this "lack of depth" in TRwP, and I do not see why it is mentioned at all.

What depth can you have in TB that you cannot have in RT? Assuming that the game is made to same complexity level.

If you make mechanically simple game, no type of combat system will save it from being easy and simple.

I don't see how you can watch BG3's gameplay demo in action and believe that a real-time system would be feasible for that particular game.

 

[Horwath]

I don't see how you can watch BG3's gameplay demo in action and believe that a real-time system would be feasible for that particular game.

Because it would.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Because it would.

No, it really wouldn't.

 

[MarkB]

Because it would.

So, that two-pronged attack where the rogue snuck up behind the archer, punted him off a ledge, and then shoved a crate down on top of him, while at the same time the wizard in an entirely different location was perfectly positioning a Grease spell to catch two more active combatants while avoiding the fighter, who was also moving into position in the same round - how do you manage that in real time, even with a pause mode?

 

[Horwath]

So, that two-pronged attack where the rogue snuck up behind the archer, punted him off a ledge, and then shoved a crate down on top of him, while at the same time the wizard in an entirely different location was perfectly positioning a Grease spell to catch two more active combatants while avoiding the fighter, who was also moving into position in the same round - how do you manage that in real time, even with a pause mode?

Anticipation.

Predicting movement of enemies and allies adds to depth of the game, it does not remove it.

 

[Lidgar]

Really looking forward to this. The Divinity games are great, and D&D 5e is great, so naturally..

 

[Gradine]

Because it would.

The depth and complexity and range of possible bonus actions simply would not work in RTwP without heavily simplifying or flat out erasing them.

Of course, I do say this as someone who is not really a fan of RTwP, in spite of heavily enjoying BG1 and PS:T (I eventually bounced off of BG2 but I was a decent ways into it before it I did). It was a step up from EOB-style Dance-of-Death first person party combat but RTwP almost always broke down into three possible outcomes:
1) Trash mobs which I'd just point my party at and watch until they died (boring)
2) Complex enough that I'd have to be constantly pausing and assigning orders to on the fly, which is functionally turn-based only more chaotic and more tedious as I constantly hammer the pause button (chaotic/tedious)
3) High level enough that I'd spend a few minutes pre-buffing my party and then pointing my party at the enemy and watched until they died (tedious, pace-killing, and boring)

I recognize that this is my own personal preference but I, for one, am very happy with what I saw.

 

[slobster]

The depth and complexity and range of possible bonus actions simply would not work in RTwP without heavily simplifying or flat out erasing them.

Of course, I do say this as someone who is not really a fan of RTwP, in spite of heavily enjoying BG1 and PS:T (I eventually bounced off of BG2 but I was a decent ways into it before it I did). It was a step up from EOB-style Dance-of-Death first person party combat but RTwP almost always broke down into three possible outcomes:
1) Trash mobs which I'd just point my party at and watch until they died (boring)
2) Complex enough that I'd have to be constantly pausing and assigning orders to on the fly, which is functionally turn-based only more chaotic and more tedious as I constantly hammer the pause button (chaotic/tedious)
3) High level enough that I'd spend a few minutes pre-buffing my party and then pointing my party at the enemy and watched until they died (tedious, pace-killing, and boring)

I recognize that this is my own personal preference but I, for one, am very happy with what I saw.

No no no, you are playing RTwP in BG all wrong.

The proper combat rhythm is:
Pause
Cleric uses Harm
Magic missile
Reload your save file if you didn't penetrate enemy's SR
Triumph

Modern day gamers are so simple they can't even understand proper strategy games SMH my head.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Anticipation.

Predicting movement of enemies and allies adds to depth of the game, it does not remove it.

Predicting movement of enemies and allies is also important in turn-based combat, which is based on D&D, which is a turn-based game ...

What you seem to want is a game that determines your success based on how quickly you can slam the pause button. Which just doesn't strike me as fun, especially in a game like this. As has been mentioned above, RTwP seems to be a half-arsed compromise between turn-based and full action, with none of the positives of either one.

 

[Gladius Legis]

No no no, you are playing RTwP in BG all wrong.

The proper combat rhythm is:
Pause
Cleric uses Harm
Magic missile
Reload your save file if you didn't penetrate enemy's SR
Triumph

Modern day gamers are so simple they can't even understand proper strategy games SMH my head.

Hey now, don't forget:
1. Select character with stealth capability
2. Hide
3. Run up to enemy mob
4. Backstab
5. Run away until the mob is off screen
6. Repeat 2-5

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Sadly I am not. You have seen how long the intellect devourer fight took and that was a generic low level fight.
I have played Divinity 2 and fights got eventually tedious. And the environmental effects soon lost their appeal.

That is normally how low level fights go in D&D. It normally speeds up. Particularly if you do things properly like how Swen did the second time where the fight took no time at all.

 

[Gradine]

No no no, you are playing RTwP in BG all wrong.

The proper combat rhythm is:
Pause
Cleric uses Harm
Magic missile
Reload your save file if you didn't penetrate enemy's SR
Triumph

Hey now, don't forget:
1. Select character with stealth capability
2. Hide
3. Run up to enemy mob
4. Backstab
5. Run away until the mob is off screen
6. Repeat 2-5

Fun!™