WotC WotC partners with Start Playing to connect players and DMs and form tables.

[Yaarel]

I get that not everyone wants to GM, but not even 1 in 5? There's something wrong with the messaging, then.

The messaging is fine.

The problem is the game system. 5e intentionally makes the game easy for players − which is smart for popularity and business.

But it makes the DM do all of the heavy lifting, in terms of knowing the rules, preparing the story, etcetera.

The 2024 Players Handbook needs to include EVERY rule that is necessary to play a satisfying game of D&D. Maybe even a quick section on how to create a monster statblock (for companion, mounts, familiars, etcetera). Then simply being players learns all of the rules to understand how the game works. Nothing is kept behind a gate of entry.

Then it is easy for players to take turns DMing.

 

[John Lloyd1]

Lots of new DMs make mistake of over preparing. They spend too much time and do too much work and then half of that goes into trash can cause of player decisions. Repeat that couple of sessions and people burn out or just lose interest. Prep work is an art, how to do just enough but not too much. It takes time to find that balance and not get dishearten by it in the process.

And lets be honest. You need to be at least somewhat talkative person to be DM. You can be quiet type and still enjoy and play. But to run, you need to like talking a lot.

When I was a teenager, I had all these big plans for GMing D&D and Traveller. They never came to anything.

When I was in my forties and started roleplaying again and, when I was ready, I actually managed to do it. By then I was much more practical in what I needed to do.

Now, one of my sons in high school has just started DMing at school and he is really enjoying it.

 

[Hussar]

So screw WotC. Stop worrying about what they do. If you want to make a game that is 5E plus 4E and 3E, just do it.

This. This is the healthy response.

Funny thing. My first 5e purchase (beyond the core books) was Primeval Thule. Which was published BEFORE the 5e SRD. And, still not a problem. If you want to make your retro-clone, knock yourself out. No one is going to stop you.

 

[Reynard]

The messaging is fine.

The problem is the game system. 5e intentionally makes the game easy for players − which is smart for popularity and business.

But it makes the DM do all of the heavy lifting, in terms of knowing the rules, preparing the story, etcetera.

The 2024 Players Handbook needs to include EVERY rule that is necessary to play a satisfying game of D&D. Maybe even a quick section on how to create a monster statblock (for companion, mounts, familiars, etcetera). Then simply being players learns all of the rules to understand how the game works. Nothing is kept behind a gate of entry.

Then it is easy for players to take turns DMing.

This is what I was talking about: going on and on about how hard it is to GM is not helpful, nor accurate.

 

[Yaarel]

This is what I was talking about: going on and on about how hard it is to GM is not helpful, nor accurate.

It is accurate that 5e makes DMing a challenge. Plenty of DMs note this about 5e. Hopefully, 2024 will address this issue.

But it is also more about being familiar with the rules, and seeing how they work.

Also when players are newbies, they can help whoever volunteers to be DM, by reading the 2024 Players Handbook to help the DM with tracking all of the rules. Then the DM can focus on the story telling.

Ideally, players take turns DMing.

 

[Distracted DM]

So screw WotC. Stop worrying about what they do. If you want to make a game that is 5E plus 4E and 3E, just do it.

Frankly I'd say just check out 13th Age! I love that game. It's the great stuff from 3+4e made by some of the folks that worked on both.
It came out just before 5e so it technically doesn't have that bit in it

And as far as folk saying 5e is a challenge for the DM.. yeah that's kind of right IMO- but check out Level Up A5e's rules to help ease that burden. The Monstrous Menagerie and Trials and Treasures books are sooo nice. The AG too if you want another take on classes etc and a balanced look at spells feats etc.

 

[Hussar]

This is what I was talking about: going on and on about how hard it is to GM is not helpful, nor accurate.

But, it is accurate. What do you think "rulings not rules" means? It means that the DM must, constantly, be overseeing the rules to make sure that the game works. The DM is responsible for fixing any rough spots in the rules. And, the DM must do that without any real input from the game itself.

Take something as simple as invisibility. Does making you invisible remove you from sight entirely? Meaning that if you go invisible, you are completely undetectable until you attack? I've certainly seen DM's rule this way. OTOH, does it merely mean that everyone knows what square you are in, until such time as you take an action to hide?

Now, where in the rules does it tell you which interpretation is correct?

There are a thousand things like this. Particularly in the spell system where you have a thousand different effects, many of which are vague and poorly defined.

SO, yeah, DMing is hard. It's a crapton of work. There's a reason that Campaigns in a Can, ie. Adventure Paths, are popular.

They don't really tell you that DMing can wind up being a part time job without the benefit of pay.

 

[Meech17]

OK jeeze that's a huge wall of text.

I appreciate you taking the time to type it up. It was really insightful to read.

I can't say definitively of course, and don't want to over generalize, but as a parent of GenZ kids in high school and college, and as someone who literally goes to school with college kids in their early to late 20s (Civil engineering) I say this with both sincerity and empathy: many members of that generation have a real problem with anxiety and perception. I don't want to speculate too much, but I think it is wrapped up in a combination of social media and an apparently chaotic world. I won't be specific but I live in a town that suffered a major cultural event this generation, with us and my kids directly involved, and those events have deeply affected the kids of this generation.

It sounds dumb to tie that stuff to D&D, but if we are talking about why kids now don't "step up" the way we GenX kids did (again, I acknowledge that this is clumsy language) I don't think we can discount how a literal lifetime of fear and uncertainty can impact people.

There also seems to be this thing where younger people feel the need to be proficient in something before they do it. I'm 31, so just a younger millennial, but growing up in the internet generation, I feel like I lived between two distinct periods. The period before, the only way to learn something was to have someone else show you how to do it. The period after was the one where you can learn anything with a few taps on your phone. I got to experience both, which I feel like was a huge boon. I learned to be teachable, but also learned how to learn independently.

I recently engaged in a post on one of the DM focused SubReddits, and it was a group of 5 new players looking for a dungeon master. The obvious top comment was "Well, why don't you do it?" and the OP seemed astonished. "None of us have ever played before. Shouldn't we have a DM with some experience?"

It's this weird thing where when I was a 15 year old we had all played in a single session before my older brother sat down and tried running the game for the first time. These people have probably absorbed more D&D knowledge through osmosis watching Critical Role or Dimension 20 than we had experienced actually playing. My brother wasn't expecting to be amazing, and we weren't expecting him to be either.

I don't know if newer players are afraid of failure, or perhaps they are afraid of letting down their friends. I think you're onto something when you suggest we stop stressing how hard DMing can be. I think we need to be upfront that it is work. More work than playing. But ultimately your group, especially if it's a group of your friends, likely won't care how well or not well you do. There's nothing to lose by goofing it up.

 

[GrimCo]

And let's not forget. Every master was once a rookie. And made crapton of rookie mistakes, learned from them and improved. You cannot gain experience in doing something without actually doing it.

Part of my job is mentoring young engineers. I always tell them that they will screw up and I expect for them to screw up. But good ones among them will learn from their screw ups and from screw ups of their colleagues.

 

[Juxtapozbliss]

To be clear, I am well aware of the site's purpose, I just think $20+ per session is a lot. Apparently there are enough people willing to pay the price.

One of the top DMs who is making $75k reportedly, charges $40+ per person per session, and they are running like 10 to a dozen games a week, consistently filled. There may be others who make even more money, but don’t blog about it.

Also, from what the startplaying.games moderators have said several times in the startplaying.games discord channel, Game Masters who charge less than $20 per session aren’t on average getting more sign ups. It’s much more about the particular game, the particular time the game is running, and the GM’s experience. Scheduling is a big factor. Even if you know a couple people who are interested in playing, and even if one of them is willing to be a game master, which is not necessarily true, you might have a hard time finding a time when everyone is available consistently. People’s work schedules and commitments are all over the place so people are willing to pay for a game that they know is consistently available at a time when they are free.