log in or register to remove this ad

 

5E WotC Shares Theros Table of Contents

Russ Morrissey

Comments

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
Bards definitely have their power budget firmly set more in the core Class features, more than Subclass.

The Level 3 changes seem brilliant, giving this Bard reliable talent for Persuasion and Deception makes this the ultimate face character: putting Expertise on these two Skills means the Eloquence Bard is unmatched for social interactions.
That sounds about right to me. I love face characters, so it's nice to have another good option.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Parmandur

Legend
Yes, they are very good at social interaction. At level 17+ with expertise in Persuasion and Deception, and combined with this ability, the lowest number you should be able to get with a +5 to Charisma would be a 27. That's kind of ridiculous.
The Level 17 Rogue is going to be right there with Sneak or Sleight of Hand, and probably a few other Skills.

It is powerful, but it works well with the Subclass concept, and gives the character a distinct Thing.
 

Now, the Glory paladin, formerly known as the Heroism paladin. (I have to admit, Glory is a better name than Heroism)

First, the extra prepared spell list (I will only comment on them if the spell list changed, and list how):
Level 1 Spells: It was Expeditious Retreat, and it became Heroism.
Level 2 Spells: It was Enthrall and became Magic Weapon
Level 3 Spells: No change
Level 4 Spells: No change
Level 5 Spells: It was Conjure Volley and became Flame Strike

So, only 3 spells changed. I think it was for the best. Heroism, Magic Weapon, Flame Strike are all obvious spells for this subclass.

Second, the Channel Divinity Options were Peerless Athlete, which gave you advantage on Athletics and Acrobatic checks for 10 minutes, which stayed the same name, had all the same benefits, but increased weight capacity, and jumping. The UA version had a Legendary Strike Channel Divinity that gave you critical hits with weapon attacks on a 19 or 20 by activating as a bonus action. This was replaced with Inspiring Smite, which you can use when you use a divine smite, and you can give temporary hit points to allies and yourself, divided however you like, the amount of which equals 2d8 + your paladin level. They're both nice abilities, but I personally preferred Legendary Strike, and am sad to see it go.

Third, the level 7 ability. In the Heroism Paladin, you had a strange ability that triggered when you knocked a creature to 0 hit points or scored a critical hit. When this activated, you could heal allies and frighten enemies, limited to an amount of creatures equal to you CHA bonus. This was strange, and I'm not sad that it changed into the Aura of Alacrity. This aura increases your speed by 10 feet, and allies who are near you have their speed increased temporarily by 10 feet.

Fourth, the Glorious Defense. This ability mainly stayed the same, where you can add your charisma modifier to an attack to try to block it, and then as the same reaction, attack the attacker if the attack misses. This works similarly to a shield spell, but requires no spell slots, is not limited in any way as far as the amount of times in a day you can use it, and is better than shield, because it can't be counterspelled, isn't magical, is free, and lets you attack. In the previous version, it only worked in defending yourself, but now it functions when an ally within 10 feet of you is attacked.
This ability is good, and the attack that is triggered can be a ranged attack, so in the case that you're a paladin that uses a thrown weapon, if the attacker is far away, you can attack them. If you are for some reason a paladin that uses a bow or crossbow, you can use this ability to trigger that attack.

Fifth, the capstone ability. Previously named Living Myth, now named Living Legend (I prefer the new name. It's better). So, it's a bonus action to activate, and for 10 minutes in the previous version, you had advantage on all Charisma checks, could automatically make one of your missed attacks hit once a round, and could use a reaction to automatically succeed on a saving throw that you failed. This was overpowered, so it got a few nerfs. It only lasts 1 minute now, still have advantage on charisma checks (not really super useful in battle), can still cause a miss to hit once a turn, and no longer can automatically succeed on a failed save by using a reaction. You now use a reaction to reroll and use the new roll. Additionally, in the current version, you can expend a 5th level spell slot to recharge this ability. Otherwise, it's once a day.

So, overall, I don't really like the overall changes to the paladin. I preferred the improved critical hits as a channel divinity, the Aura is useful, but not as useful as other paladin subclass's auras, and this feels a little less of a greek hero, and more of a support paladin than it did before.

Again, any thoughts?
 

Now, the Glory paladin, formerly known as the Heroism paladin. (I have to admit, Glory is a better name than Heroism)

First, the extra prepared spell list (I will only comment on them if the spell list changed, and list how):
Level 1 Spells: It was Expeditious Retreat, and it became Heroism.
Level 2 Spells: It was Enthrall and became Magic Weapon
Level 3 Spells: No change
Level 4 Spells: No change
Level 5 Spells: It was Conjure Volley and became Flame Strike

So, only 3 spells changed. I think it was for the best. Heroism, Magic Weapon, Flame Strike are all obvious spells for this subclass.

Second, the Channel Divinity Options were Peerless Athlete, which gave you advantage on Athletics and Acrobatic checks for 10 minutes, which stayed the same name, had all the same benefits, but increased weight capacity, and jumping. The UA version had a Legendary Strike Channel Divinity that gave you critical hits with weapon attacks on a 19 or 20 by activating as a bonus action. This was replaced with Inspiring Smite, which you can use when you use a divine smite, and you can give temporary hit points to allies and yourself, divided however you like, the amount of which equals 2d8 + your paladin level. They're both nice abilities, but I personally preferred Legendary Strike, and am sad to see it go.

Third, the level 7 ability. In the Heroism Paladin, you had a strange ability that triggered when you knocked a creature to 0 hit points or scored a critical hit. When this activated, you could heal allies and frighten enemies, limited to an amount of creatures equal to you CHA bonus. This was strange, and I'm not sad that it changed into the Aura of Alacrity. This aura increases your speed by 10 feet, and allies who are near you have their speed increased temporarily by 10 feet.

Fourth, the Glorious Defense. This ability mainly stayed the same, where you can add your charisma modifier to an attack to try to block it, and then as the same reaction, attack the attacker if the attack misses. This works similarly to a shield spell, but requires no spell slots, is not limited in any way as far as the amount of times in a day you can use it, and is better than shield, because it can't be counterspelled, isn't magical, is free, and lets you attack. In the previous version, it only worked in defending yourself, but now it functions when an ally within 10 feet of you is attacked.
This ability is good, and the attack that is triggered can be a ranged attack, so in the case that you're a paladin that uses a thrown weapon, if the attacker is far away, you can attack them. If you are for some reason a paladin that uses a bow or crossbow, you can use this ability to trigger that attack.

Fifth, the capstone ability. Previously named Living Myth, now named Living Legend (I prefer the new name. It's better). So, it's a bonus action to activate, and for 10 minutes in the previous version, you had advantage on all Charisma checks, could automatically make one of your missed attacks hit once a round, and could use a reaction to automatically succeed on a saving throw that you failed. This was overpowered, so it got a few nerfs. It only lasts 1 minute now, still have advantage on charisma checks (not really super useful in battle), can still cause a miss to hit once a turn, and no longer can automatically succeed on a failed save by using a reaction. You now use a reaction to reroll and use the new roll. Additionally, in the current version, you can expend a 5th level spell slot to recharge this ability. Otherwise, it's once a day.

So, overall, I don't really like the overall changes to the paladin. I preferred the improved critical hits as a channel divinity, the Aura is useful, but not as useful as other paladin subclass's auras, and this feels a little less of a greek hero, and more of a support paladin than it did before.

Again, any thoughts?
No one wants to play this trash paladin anymore.
 



No, that is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that there are properties of space and scale to consider, that is all. It is up to the individual fantasy to determine how malleable those are.
I follow what you're saying and I disagree, but for a different reason than all the "but.. fantasy!" arguments.

1) If the Kaiju is so big that it's skin is 36" thick, then doing a 30" cut might cause that last 6" to TEAR UNDER ITS OWN WEIGHT. If we're trying to put things like physics back into our fantasy, then (leaving out that they couldn't even exist that big) I imagine that any disruption of their structure could result in a catastrophic failure.

2) Who says that an attack with a sword in D&D has to represent a single strike? You see in fantasy movies all the time, the beheading of a hydra or chopping off a tentacle where the swordsman does one hack to halfway through and a second hack to get the rest of the way through. Even if you want to say that a single attack is one swing, what about a crit? What about extra attack? Can the swordsman hack the same wound? Why not?

I like my physics to be as real as reasonable in my D&D too, within reason, but I have long since stopped worrying about killing Kaiju. If it's HP can hit zero, you can kill it.

EDIT: Didn't read far enough to notice that people grew tired of this subject. Sorry!
 





It only feels gutted if you new the UA version. My players don't look at UA or anything online really. I'm sure they are not the only ones.
Some groups play with UA. Then play the official version. Then go back to playing UA. Probably a lot of groups play like this.
 

There are people you don't look at or check DPR when they make a character. I know my group doesn't.
Yeah, a lot of people don't. The Healing Smite ability that requires you to expend a channel divinity and a spell slot in order to use seems a bit too much for some temporary hit points.
 



Parmandur

Legend
The UA articles are second drafts, not yet balanced mathematically or tested in actual play. They don't put the real resources into development until they get feedback that people like the basic design concept. Their standard is to intentionally overpower the initial drafts, to stress-test the idea, and then use the private playtest process to trim the hedges into shape. The UA will always be more "powerful" that the final development, by design.
 

So, there's a reference in the book to the Catoblepas monster from Volo's Guide to Monsters. Just wanted to point out that the plural of Catoblepas based on the greek creature it came from wouldn't be "Catoblepases" but would actually be "Catoblepones".
 

I love that they actually included example riddles in the sphinx section:
  • The more of these you take, the more you leave behind. (Steps)
  • What has six faces, but no mouth, has twenty-one eyes, but cannot see? (A die)
  • What turns everything but does not move? (A mirror)
  • The more there is, the less you see. (Darkness)
  • What is stronger than the gods, more terrifying than the demons, the poor have it, the rich need it, and if you eat it, you die? (Nothing)
 

The UA articles are second drafts, not yet balanced mathematically or tested in actual play. They don't put the real resources into development until they get feedback that people like the basic design concept. Their standard is to intentionally overpower the initial drafts, to stress-test the idea, and then use the private playtest process to trim the hedges into shape. The UA will always be more "powerful" that the final development, by design.
To me though, it doesn't look like a reduction in power, so much as a reduction in fun. I felt that the oath of heroism had a lot of implied potential for comedy, where's the oath of glory takes itself way too seriously.
 


Mythological Figures & Maleficent Monsters

Advertisement1

Latest threads

Mythological Figures & Maleficent Monsters

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top