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5E WotC Shares Theros Table of Contents

Russ Morrissey

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cbwjm

I can add a custom title.
Making other people awesome is just like any other paladin, and defeats the whole point of the class.

Which is to charge in an kill everything whist the rest of the party are still tying their bootlaces.
But only one automatically applies to others, they can still focus everything else on themselves. I also don't think that helping your teammates defeats the whole point of the class, you're leading your whole team to glory.
 

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Making other people awesome is just like any other paladin, and defeats the whole point of the class.

Which is to charge in an kill everything whist the rest of the party are still tying their bootlaces.
Exactly, the theme of being a Greek Warrior/Hero isn't to be a team-helper, it's to be that one guy who runs up to the dragon, jumps 18 feet into the air, slash its face with a glowing greatsword, and then bragging about how well you did in battle after it dies from multiple whacks to the face.

This paladin can jump better, but otherwise isn't really a haughty-selfcentered glory-vampire that it is supposed to be, IMO.
 

But only one automatically applies to others, they can still focus everything else on themselves. I also don't think that helping your teammates defeats the whole point of the class, you're leading your whole team to glory.
But greek heroes aren't supposed to be about bringing everyone the glory, it's about having the glory to yourself. There are 3 abilities that they get that can be used on allies, the Temporary Hit Point-Smite ability, the Aura of Speed, and the Shield-Attack ability. That's not really what greek heroes do in they myths. They don't make protecting auras around allies, or make their allies faster, or block an enemy's attack from hitting an ally and then whacking the enemy in the face. That's not what the greek-hero theme is all about, IMHO, it's about being selfish and a good person, while still thinking the whole world revolves around you.

I like that the Greek-Hero subclass is a paladin, but it feels like they were more focused on having it be a paladin than a greek hero.
 


I like that the Greek-Hero subclass is a paladin, but it feels like they were more focused on having it be a paladin than a greek hero.
From a design standpoint, they may be torn between doing what's best for the setting and knowing everything they put in a book is going to be used in lots of other games. Is creating a subclass for a not-great-as-a-traditional-paladin worth it when it's really good for the setting, or is it better to make something that works for the class and the game generally, even if that means it waters down the setting somewhat?
 

cbwjm

I can add a custom title.
But greek heroes aren't supposed to be about bringing everyone the glory, it's about having the glory to yourself. There are 3 abilities that they get that can be used on allies, the Temporary Hit Point-Smite ability, the Aura of Speed, and the Shield-Attack ability. That's not really what greek heroes do in they myths. They don't make protecting auras around allies, or make their allies faster, or block an enemy's attack from hitting an ally and then whacking the enemy in the face. That's not what the greek-hero theme is all about, IMHO, it's about being selfish and a good person, while still thinking the whole world revolves around you.

I like that the Greek-Hero subclass is a paladin, but it feels like they were more focused on having it be a paladin than a greek hero.
The only thing this hero does automatically is allow people in his aura of alacrity keep up with him. Temporary hit points can be granted to others or they can spend them all on themselves, peerless athlete is all about the paladin, nothing to grant to others. Glorious Defence allows them to protect themselves or others and make an attack themselves, seems like a heroic ability gaining the paladin glory for themselves. Living legend is all about making the paladin themselves a living legend.

I see the Greek heroes differently, they weren't necessarily selfish, they just often worked alone in much the way most heroes of folktales work alone. They still could work well with others, the most famous being the argonauts but even Hercules had Iolaus to help him out.
 


Yep. Greek heroes can and will work together toward a common goal/foe but at the same time, they wiil seek to achieve personal glory. That is why the greek pantheon was set in a chaotic good plane.

Edit: missing letters in words...
 
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If you read about the exploits of the Argonauts, what they were NOT is team players. They are constantly competing with each other and getting the whole crew into danger in pursuit of their own glory.
I'm struggling to think of any individual actions outside a few of Jason's (most notably agreeing that Medea could come with them) that put the whole expedition in danger. Herakles did wander off looking for Hylas, but him leaving the expedition hardly put it in danger. Then there were the Lemnian women, but that was something all members were involved in collectively. Individual exploits like the sons of Boreas chasing off the Harpies or Polydeukes wrestling Amykos merely showed off those individuals' expertise and didn't endanger everyone as a whole. Indeed, when it came down to it, everyone banded together when it came to a fight or when they needed to row quickly in unison to escape peril.
 
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I see the Greek heroes differently, they weren't necessarily selfish, they just often worked alone in much the way most heroes of folktales work alone. They still could work well with others, the most famous being the argonauts but even Hercules had Iolaus to help him out.
Being prideful/narcissistic is normally correlated with selfishness. Many greek heroes died because of hubris or pride. They could work together, but none of them worked together long term. They were always arguing/boasting, and split up after working together for awhile.
 


So, like the old AD&D Paladin and any party he teamed up with that was not all LG. lol
Nope. Any non good. Non evil would be on a short therm basis. Evil would be a no go.
Any good characters were ok. Even a chaotic good could be taken in. I wonder why people always think that the paladin was restricted to only lawfull good. He was restricted to good aligned characters and npcs. Neutral were tolerated if the adventure was promoting lawful and good. But only for one adventure. For a longer therm (or a second adventure) with neutral characters/NPCs, atonement would be required (after the deed) or a special permission from either the church or the paladin's god (that one would be before the deed). In all cases, the adventure would have to promote lawful and good.

But on the matter at hand, I agree that the glory paladin has too many skills that are boosting his friends. I think he should have been somewhat a selfish type seeking glory. Not sharing it.
 

cbwjm

I can add a custom title.
What's more selfish? To have abilities that can only affect yourself or to have abilities that affect others but that you only use to help yourself?

Honestly, this is probably my favourite paladin subclass so far, others are bad but this one screams hero to me. Kinda wish It got the +AC/make an attack move earlier but then that wouldn't follow the standard paladin subclass of granting an aura at 7th.
 


Lem23

Adventurer
A class based on fighting, a glory hound, that only cares for his own strength at arms and victories doesn't sound anything like a paladin to me, more a fighter or barbarian.
 

What's more selfish? To have abilities that can only affect yourself or to have abilities that affect others but that you only use to help yourself?
Paladins already have many of those abilities. Lay on Hands, Protection fighting style, so on. Greek Hero theme isn't "I have abilities that can benefit others and choose not to" or "I am a team-helper, I just love giving other people boosts!". The Greek Hero theme is "I am glorious, powerful, and crush enemies".
Honestly, this is probably my favourite paladin subclass so far, others are bad but this one screams hero to me. Kinda wish It got the +AC/make an attack move earlier but then that wouldn't follow the standard paladin subclass of granting an aura at 7th.
The other paladins aren't bad, IMO, they're just a different playstyle. This one doesn't scream hero to me. It screams "generic paladin with some flair" like the Devotion or Crown paladins.
 


The paladin abilities seem to fit Greek Heros more. A lot of them can heal, smite evil creatures, and so on.
The noble knight paladin is a Christian invention, and complete anachronism in a pseudo-Greek setting. A Greek inspired paladin should reflect the Greek gods, not the Christian god. So, instead of justice, mercy and self-sacrifice they should embody arrogance, ego and petty vindictiveness.
 


The noble knight paladin is a Christian invention, and complete anachronism in a pseudo-Greek setting. A Greek inspired paladin should reflect the Greek gods, not the Christian god. So, instead of justice, mercy and self-sacrifice they should embody arrogance, ego and petty vindictiveness.
No to discussing RL religion.
 

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