WOTC's research on gaming groups

[Nail]

The six PCs in question have seven prestige classes between them. Four describe 2nd edition "cool character quirks" in 3e terms, two describe organizations that exist in my campaign, and one (alienist) is just plain cool. I haven't seen any balance problems as a result, and I try to be fairly cognizant of those.

...and we get to read the evidence each week! Cool!!!

 

[Spatula]

No, all the feats in the PHB seem right to me; or at least none of them seem overpowered (some are underpowered of course). It's the move to include special feats in the splatbooks such as the ones that grant +9 hit points instead of the +3 granted by regular Toughness. Wouldn't you feel a bit annoyed at that 3 hit point feat plaguing your character sheet once you hit 9th level and could have a 9 hit point feat?

I kind of agree with you in regards to the Toughness feats. If I were designing them I would have made each successive feat have the previous ones as prerequisites, but that's not the approach the designers chose to take. I don't think it matters much in this case, though, since the only people who are going to take basic Toughness are 1st-level mages (and those who need it for a PrC), and the more powerful versions of it are effectively denied to wizards because of the high base Fort save prereqs. The Toughness feats are also the only high-level feats that I've seen that don't have other hard-to-qualify-for feats as prereqs - perhaps that was a poor design decision.

 

[hong]

For me, the world is a big place, and there's room for a lot of stuff out there. If a player is interested in a particular PrC, I'll do everything I can to find a way to fit it into the game - and being (IMHO) an inventive and creative guy, I do pretty well. My tabletop campaign features the very first Spellsword - a warrior mage who is developing his abilities based on a very incomplete understanding of the elven bladesinger art. He'll be quite surprised when he meets a real bladesinger...and so will the bladesingers!

If I happen to know of a PrC that would fit the character, I suggest it to them and if they're interested, find a way to work them into the story. That's what's happening right now in my game - an NPC is basically tutoring one of the PCs in the ways of a certain PrC that the character doesn't even know exists.

I think drN has a good point here. The opinion has been raised before that PrCs are a tool for DMs to customise their campaign, and they can certainly be used for that. In practice, it seems that their most common use is to give _players_ a degree of ownership over the campaign, something that lets them shape the only part of it that's under their direct control -- their character -- as they like. If I'm playing a wizard, I don't want to be just any wizard. I want to be a specialist in rune magic, or elemental magic, or an archmage of Spiff City, or whatever. Similarly if I'm playing a fighter, I don't want to be just any fighter; I want to be one of the elite archers of Croodle, or a Knight of the Purple Bunnies, etcetera. There's just a cachet attached to having a PrC that a core class can't always achieve.

 

[el-remmen]

Yeah, but if there is no such thing as the "Archmage of Spliff" prestige class - you can't make it up just for your player - I mean, you could - but not if there is no history or context of such a thing then the I guess the PC would be the first of his kind - and if that is the case then the DM might as well arbitrarily give out some powers that work for the game as they go up in level.

Also, I think that if becoming a member of a prestige class doesn't have some in-game history and believability connected to it - then there is no way it is going to happen for the character even if I do allow it.

I mean, if the ranger/rogue inb my group couldn't suddenly take on levels of the Bounty Hunter prestige class just because he may fulfill the requirements and the player thinks the powers are cool - there has been no fugitives sought, no connections with law enforcement, no taking captives, no associations with bounty-hunters in any way. . .

I think players can have a degree of ownership in a campaign based on the actions they choose to take in-character - and within the limits of the setting - if someone wants to undertake the blade-singer PrC (for example) and it would work within the context of the game - then I would allow and encourage them to detail the school they are taught at - the traditions of their order - etc. . within the guidelines for elves and blade-singers as laid down by me DM, arbitrator of the setting.

 

[bret]

Having just reread the survey, I'm surprised by several things.

They decided to stop the survey at 35 (thereby eliminating me and many of the people I game with), yet if you look at the demographics it is heavily slanted towards the upper age group.

Given this, why didn't they revise the survey to include older gamers?

 

[hong]

Yeah, but if there is no such thing as the "Archmage of Spliff" prestige class

Guildmage of Waterdeep (FRCS).
Archmage (FRCS).
Mage of the Arcane Order (T&B).

An "Archmage of Spiff" can be any one of these. Just change the serial numbers and away you go. Rare is the concept that's so unique that you can't reuse someone else's work. There are only so many ways in which you can build a weapon master, cavalier, archmage, or whatever, after all.

Also, I think that if becoming a member of a prestige class doesn't have some in-game history and believability connected to it - then there is no way it is going to happen for the character even if I do allow it.

Then it's the DM's task to arrange events in the campaign in such a way that there _is_ some in-game history and believability connected to the character taking that prestige class.

It's not that hard.

 

[el-remmen]

Guildmage of Waterdeep (FRCS).
Archmage (FRCS).
Mage of the Arcane Order (T&B).

An "Archmage of Spiff" can be any one of these. Just change the serial numbers and away you go. Rare is the concept that's so unique that you can't reuse someone else's work. There are only so many ways in which you can build a weapon master, cavalier, archmage, or whatever, after all.

You misunderstood me. I mean, what if there was no such thing in the City of Spliff in the particular campaign setting.

Then it's the DM's task to arrange events in the campaign in such a way that there _is_ some in-game history and believability connected to the character taking that prestige class.

It's not that hard.

Within reason. . .

 

[Crothian]

As the DM I ask PCs to tell me levels in advance if they are aiming towardsa particuliar prestige class so I have time to incorperate it into the world. It doesn't always happen, but the few times it does it really helps build the character and the world at the same time.

 

[hong]

You misunderstood me. I mean, what if there was no such thing in the City of Spliff in the particular campaign setting.

While that's possible, I find it hard to believe that that would be a likely situation to arise -- where someone wants a (fairly generic) prestige class, but there's no way to incorporate it into the setting. To take the current example further, let's say I've seen the guildmage PrC in the FR book, and I want to play that class in your campaign. Let's suppose that you're willing to file off the serial numbers, as long as a suitable niche for the class can be found.

For the class to be totally unsuitable, there would have to be 1) no large cities at all in your campaign; or 2) no large city with enough wizards to form a guild; or 3) if there was a large city with enough wizards, a good reason for them _not_ to form a guild; or 4) no wizards at all. These possibilities don't seem very likely to me. You don't need that many people to form a guild, and for a large city (population > 20,000) it doesn't seem that unreasonable that there would be at least a dozen or so wizards who would be willing to band together to carry out research or other wizardly duties. So as long as there's _some_ city that _could_ have a wizard's guild, there's an opening for a guildmage prestige class if anyone wants it.

Now I can certainly see a DM not allowing more outre PrCs like the alienist or verdant lord, but the guildmage is nowhere near as extreme as that.

 

[el-remmen]

hong, I don't know how this became a prestige class debate, but here goes nothing. . .

Here is another example, from your guildmage example above. . . the player comes to me and says he is interested in this guildmage PrC - and you say, well the guildmages of such and such don't get those abilities they get these [<---insert some other PrC] - because of the nature of the guild or the setting or whatever, would you still allow the Guildmage PrC?