WOTC's research on gaming groups

[DDK]

Re: Re: Plethora of Prestigious Pulp (was... some other topic, I've forgotten about...)

If you really think that, I think you're just a bad DM.

I'm sorry, but just what was it that pissed you off so much that you felt like you had to insult me?

You're in Australia I see. If you ever come by Melbourne, Camberwell specifically, make sure and let me know so that you can attempt to say this to my face.

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Re: Plethora of Prestigious Pulp (was... some other topic, I've forgotten about...)

I'm sorry, but just what was it that pissed you off so much that you felt like you had to insult me?

I'm still all chaotic this week. And you haven't seen me insult.

You're in Australia I see. If you ever come by Melbourne, Camberwell specifically, make sure and let me know so that you can attempt to say this to my face.

Come on. You can do better than that.

 

[Piratecat]

This was a good thread. Stop it, both of you. Now.

 

[drnuncheon]

Re: Re: Re: Plethora of Prestigious Pulp (was... some other topic, I've forgotten about...)

I'm sorry, but just what was it that pissed you off so much that you felt like you had to insult me?

It was probably you saying "to be a good DM these days, you have to be an ogre, ready to club players into submission".

You just called me a bad DM, and Hong, and Piratecat, and most of the people I play with, and a lot of other people on this board. I find that pretty insulting. Sticking "IMO" on the end of it doesn't make it any nicer or absolve you of responsibility for your words.

Hong said exactly what you said, only a bit more directly.

J

 

[rich_f]

I've told my players they can use the Prestige classes in the splat books as inspiration. However, I have not, and probably won't , allow any "stock" prestige classes straight from any source.

One of the points of my capaign is that everything is relatively new. I was so sick of campaigns which were tied to ancient artifacts and powers. You know the drill:

"Long ago in the misty depths of time, the peoples of the world were thrown assunder by the machinations of the big evil dude....now the players must quest for the Nose of Booga-Booga..."

Seriously, I got fed up with the whole idea that ancient times were filled with power, and present time paled in comparison. The idea of this campaign is that players get to fight the equivalent of Iuz or Vecna, or become them, if they want (if they can).

Hand in hand with this idea is that it is up to the players to establish prestige classes. This is done with my oversight, obviously. Each prestige class generally has a well defined agenda, and therefore fits the world very well. However, the purpose and flavor of the prestige class is up to the players for the most part. This gives them a sense of ownership, and a bit of "randomness" for me to come up with ideas to play off of.

This has worked out well for us. It works well because the history of the world is not set in stone, as their isn't much (and of what exists, much is undiscovered), and the future is very much unscripted.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[drnuncheon]

This was a good thread. Stop it, both of you. Now.

My apologies for continuing that, you posted just as I was.

I'll let mine stand (since I don't think it's inflammatory, just explanatory) unless you want it to be removed.

J

 

[Psion]

I don't think I've ever been involved in a campaign that ran past 12th-level or so, even when we started at 5th level. Things like +1 BAB and 1 more rank in a skill just aren't very exciting. Aside from prestige classes (and I'll throw a nod in here for legendary classes), there just aren't that many exciting options for levels 10-20.

Sorry, Wil, I just don't see it. My group is not 18th level, and they attack new level selections with a zeal. There are so many feats out there, there is no way that they can knock them all the ones that they want out at low-mid levels.

 

[DDK]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Plethora of Prestigious Pulp (was... some other topic, I've forgotten about...)

It was probably you saying "to be a good DM these days, you have to be an ogre, ready to club players into submission".

You just called me a bad DM, and Hong, and Piratecat, and most of the people I play with, and a lot of other people on this board. I find that pretty insulting. Sticking "IMO" on the end of it doesn't make it any nicer or absolve you of responsibility for your words.

Hong said exactly what you said, only a bit more directly.

J

What a load of rubbish. That's like saying, "This goose pink flies west in ice-cream!" is a racist comment.

I have a lot of respect for Piratecat and as many other people in the online D&D community know, I consider him to be a damn fine DM and decent guy to boot.

I accept no responsibility for there being an insult in that paragraph since there is none in it. The comment was uncalled for and undeserved and has soured an otherwise interesting debate. Side with him if you will, I really don't give a frig, but I ain't the one deserving of scorn here.

 

[Psion]

Re: .

PC: If you saw a class in the PHB that was so good, that 6 of 8 characters took mutliple levels in in, would it raise your eyebrows with regard to that class's balance?

I know it would raise mine....

I have yet to see this happen in any game I have run. I have one PrC character in my current longterm campaign (now at 18th level).

I am very wary of allowing characters to attain Prestige Classes. While wonderful in concept, they typically allow Characters to become "Mary Janes" (a term used for a character that is good at everything).

How so? I'm just not seeing it for any reasonably designed prestige class.

The only one I have had luck with (as a DM, an as a co-player) so far is the Elementalist - probably becasue energy resistance is easy to come by, so it really is for flavor.

The Shadow Dancer, and the Dwarven Defender were a power gaming nightmare.

Now there's a matter of perspective. I have yet to see any of my players take either one of those classes, and having made NPC shadow dancers, I think that they are kind of weak.

 

[Sammael99]

I'm kind of halfway between hong and nemm in terms of what I allow and don't allow, PrC wise. Very little of my game world has been detailed, but I know what flavour I want for the game world and I know that ultimately, the players will appreciate the consistency of the world and the plot more than they will the pleasure of a "cool" prestige class.

For example, one of the players asked me to siwtch to Dragon Disciple (he was a fighter/sorceror) and I said no. First of all because I have something very specific planned for Dragons in my game world and this didn't fit at all. Second because I could see the player hating being arrested and pounded on in every single city he moved into because he looked like a 10 ft tall draconian later on.

However, he later asked me to switch to Arcane Archer and I didn't have any problem with that considering the Wood Elf people he came from could very believably have developed something like that.

Originally, I'd intended designing dozens of PrCs to fit my world. After some reflexion and seeing how things went with the campaign, I realised that multi-classing was now so flexible that it allowed for most PrC concepts. So I will only allow PrCs that can be replicated with multi-classing and make sense inside the game world.

Finally, like Nemmerle, I don't let a player pick up a PrC if he doesn't have the opportunity to do so in the game. Sometimes it's easy, most of the time it's tough. It should be something the character strives for, because it usually makes for better rp-ing (and because I like my players to get their characters involved in the organisations they belong to !)