Would you allow a sneak attack on this situation ?

[MoonZar]

I therefore technically side with your player, but strongly encourage a houserule that folks aren't flatfooted in circumstances such as the ones you describe: if you know that combat is going to begin and have at least six seconds (one round) to prepare for its beginning, you can rid yourself of flatfootedosity. This keeps you from getting arm-punched.

Daniel

That exactly my point to the players, and also if we reverse the situation they will find very bad to die from a sneak attack even if they was aware of the combat and prepared.

 

[MoonZar]

Agree with Nail, the answer is "yes". Technically, at the point where you call for initiative, everyone must be flat-footed. If the rogue rolls highest initiative, then he gets to sneak attack.

Now, if you had decided that initiative was rolled at the moment the scout sees the opposition, then that could possibly be a different story.

Yes i choose that the combat start when the scout see them, but i dont ask the players for init, this just a little weird to ask for initiative when they are not aware of the combat.

 

[Pielorinho]

Since the goblins gave up their surprise round in order to discern the PCs intent, both groups would start flat-footed. Had the party rogue been hiding already and set apart from the rest of the party a bit, he could certainly get the drop on the goblins, as they are busy trying to parlay with the adventurers.

This isn't right: the goblins were in total-defense mode, and maintaining total-defense is a standard action. They acted during the surprise round.

Daniel

 

[moritheil]

Delaying still counts as acting for the purposes of not being flat-footed.

Since the goblins gave up their surprise round in order to discern the PCs intent, both groups would start flat-footed. Had the party rogue been hiding already and set apart from the rest of the party a bit, he could certainly get the drop on the goblins, as they are busy trying to parlay with the adventurers.

 

[Pielorinho]

Delaying still counts as acting for the purposes of not being flat-footed.

Actually, I don't think this is correct:

DELAY
By choosing to delay, you take no action and then act normally on whatever initiative count you decide to act.

Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed. A flat-footed character can’t make attacks of opportunity.[emphasis added]

While you can argue that delaying merely gives up the "chance to act," which means that (since you had a chance to act) you're not flat-footed, I think the bolded text under flat-footed rules: if you delay in the first round of combat, you're flatfooted.

However, as stated above, they apparently didn't delay: the took the total defense action.

Daniel

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

While you can argue that delaying merely gives up the "chance to act," which means that (since you had a chance to act) you're not flat-footed, I think the bolded text under flat-footed rules: if you delay in the first round of combat, you're flatfooted.

No, you're not.

You are flat-footed until your turn in the initiative order comes up.

You cannot delay until your turn in the initiative order comes up.

Therefore, you cannot delay until after you are no longer flat-footed.

 

[Chorn]

I think the bolded text under flat-footed rules: if you delay in the first round of combat, you're flatfooted.

I disagree. When your turn comes up determines the point at which you become aware of the situation at hand. You must already be aware of your surroundings in the first place to choose to do nothing. If you are not aware, then you would not have the ability to pick when you want to act and cement your position in the inititiave. You're already "awake" but just unsure how you want to act.

 

[MoonZar]

No, you're not.

You are flat-footed until your turn in the initiative order comes up.

You cannot delay until your turn in the initiative order comes up.

Therefore, you cannot delay until after you are no longer flat-footed.

If you gain the surprise, you are no longer flat-foot and can take your surprise action to take the full defense action ?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If you gain the surprise, you are no longer flat-foot and can take your surprise action to take the full defense action ?

If you are active in the surprise round, you roll initiative.

You are flat-footed until your initiative comes up during the surprise round.

Thus, barring strange circumstances, anyone who is active in the surprise round is no longer flat-footed once the 1st full round of combat starts; they have already acted.

Those who are not active in the surprise round are flat-footed throughout the whole surprise round, as well as until their initiative comes up during the 1st full round of combat.

If your action during the surprise round is to take the Total Defense action, then you've acted, and are no longer flat-footed.

 

[Diirk]

Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

One could argue that your standard action in the surprise round is in fact not a regular turn and thus you're flatfooted until your turn in the first normal round of combat. Which is completely counterintuitive and goes against the spirit of the rules, but it satisfies the letter of them quite nicely (while the surprise round does give you a chance to act, the 'specifically' clause qualifies that and imposes further conditions).