Would you allow a sneak attack on this situation ?

[MoonZar]

If you are active in the surprise round, you roll initiative.

You are flat-footed until your initiative comes up during the surprise round.

Thus, barring strange circumstances, anyone who is active in the surprise round is no longer flat-footed once the 1st full round of combat starts; they have already acted.

Those who are not active in the surprise round are flat-footed throughout the whole surprise round, as well as until their initiative comes up during the 1st full round of combat.

If your action during the surprise round is to take the Total Defense action, then you've acted, and are no longer flat-footed.

This what i thought thanks you !

 

[Mr. Kaze]

DELAY
By choosing to delay, you take no action and then act normally on whatever initiative count you decide to act.

Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed. A flat-footed character can’t make attacks of opportunity.

Emphasis changed.

Before you have had a chance to act, you are flat-footed. On your chance to act, you delay until whatever. When whatever happens, you act. In the meantime you are not flat-footed because you had the chance to act, regardless of what you did or did not do with it.

::Kaze

 

[Lord Pendragon]

AFAIK, Patryn has it right regarding flatfootedness and when it goes away.

I'd have ruled the PCs were taken by surprise. They didn't know the goblins were there, while the goblins did know they were there. They used their surprise round to go into Full Defense. Then the first round of combat starts, and the PCs are still flatfooted until their initiatives come up, while the goblins have already acted and therefore none of them are flatfooted.

 

[Pielorinho]

Eh. I can see it going either way. The "specifically" text trumps the "before you have had..." text, though--specifics trump generalities. Frankly, I think it makes more sense if you're not flat-footed when you delay, so I'll go with that.

Daniel

 

[moritheil]

Actually, I don't think this is correct:

Nifty, I didn't even have to lift a finger. Thanks, Pat et al.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Eh. I can see it going either way. The "specifically" text trumps the "before you have had..." text, though--specifics trump generalities.

Different specifically.

Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order),

Combat starts, and I and my opponents are all flat-footed. I am standing in a hallway 15' wide, armed with a polearm. My opponents are all low-level goblins.

My opponents roll well on their initiative, and I roll poorly.

They decide to charge past me and attack the wizard behind me.

Lucky for me, I've got a reach weapon, Combat Reflexes, and a ridiculously high Dex score. So, when the 10 goblins run past me, I get an AoO on each of them.

I've "had a chance to act," but it's not yet my "first regular turn in the initiative order." Thus, I am still flat-footed.

 

[MoonZar]

I've "had a chance to act," but it's not yet my "first regular turn in the initiative order." Thus, I am still flat-footed.

Put aside the rules, and i think this ridiculous that someone who kill 10 peoples is still flat-foot.

Maybe you should not be allowed to do an Attack of Opportunity if you're flat-foot.

 

[moritheil]

Put aside the rules, and i think this ridiculous that someone who kill 10 peoples is still flat-foot.

Maybe you should not be allowed to do an Attack of Opportunity if you're flat-foot.

You can't, unless you have Combat Reflexes.

 

[DonTadow]

I couldn't see myself starting a combat wihen the pcs have no idea it is a combat situation. I would say that the goblins get a surprise round before the combat. However, because the events have already taken place I must side with the player. I think that the mistake came between the precombat description of the monsters and what went on in the actual combat rounds. I don't think you should make a houserule for this, else you're asking for trouble because any special priveldges the dm gets the pc's will abuse. And I'm sure there is a clause in our DM charter that clearly states we lose our membership if the pcs gain any "extra" privledges.

Seriously though

You described to your player that the goblins are in a defensive position. But is not any guard on duty in a defense position. Remember that description is not a mechanic, but just to add color to the pcs head. What your player heard was a description, however, you were thinking this is a mechanic I'm optioning. According to the rules you can not make combat decisions outside of combat, so the player was right in thinking it was flavor that you were saying.

What should have been hinted at in the before combat description is that the goblins seemed to be anticipating their attack. Now, we are still in the prebattle description mode.

Then you should have asked for initiative, but told the players that the goblins were aware of you and get a surprise round. In this surprise round, they take a full defensive stances. As they take the stances, you tell the pcs that hte goblins dig even more into their positions, readying in a defensive stance for you. I think we are getting too caught up on the defensive stance part, it is a standard action, so think about it the same as if the goblins were training their bows on the door or if they were setting up cantrips at the door.

Now, the pcs are still flatfooted by your goblins, your goblins get the defensive stance the first round and your player clearly understands why.
This way you eliminate the need for a tedious house rule (there are far more broken things in 3.5 that a house rule should be wasted on) .

 

[Diirk]

I've "had a chance to act," but it's not yet my "first regular turn in the initiative order." Thus, I am still flat-footed.

Similarly, they've had a chance to act in the surprise round (and chose to go total defense) but its not yet their "first regular turn in the initiative order" thus they're still flatfooted ?
This situation being fairly absurd, this raises the question, what exactly is a non-regular turn ? I don't think its actually defined anywhere is it ?