Writers strike is a go

[Felon]

Good for you. We always need more people to side with those who routinely screw those who work for them. I mean really, we gotta make sure to stick it to the people being screwed or else everything will fall apart.

You've made a lot of statements that you don't seem to feel compelled to back up with anything other than vitriol. Writers don't pony up any money. They aren't even coughing up equity. Why are they entitled to a slice of the profits when they aren't bearing any of the financial risk? They should get a paycheck when the work they generate isn't profitable, and then reap royalties when it is? Cake and eat it too?

Despite the quaint desire to have an underdog to root for, the truth is that everyone is out to screw everyone. Every little group is trying to look after their own members' interests. Producers, writers, directors, everybody. There are no victims, just some groups are worse victimizers than others.

 

[Felon]

Absolutely. The average WGA writer does not make 200k. At best, the "average" writer earns about what your average middle income worker does- I'd guess somewhere in the 30k to 60k range. Certainly livable, but the lion's share of the WGA membership are not in stable, month to month jobs, and can go several weeks to months between jobs as well.

Reality writers are definitely by and large screwed over by the system, and apparently animation writers are as well (which is something I didn't realize until recently- I wasn't even aware the WGA was trying to get them instated as guild members, though I've known about the reality writer situation for some time).

Honestly, if the big problem with being a writer is lack of job security and being screwed by their employer, then it sounds like the writers feel the same pinch that every middle-class American is feeling.

Does anyone really think the writers are suffering worse than an auto assembly line worker? Those guys don't get a slice of the profits based on how well the cars they build sell. Many businesses no longer offer any kind of health insurance to permanent employees, for instance. And in many states, at-will-firing laws get passed to deny employees the luxury of a labor union. It's tough all over.

 

[Storm Raven]

You've made a lot of statements that you don't seem to feel compelled to back up with anything other than vitriol. Writers don't pony up any money. They aren't even coughing up equity. Why are they entitled to a slice of the profits when they aren't bearing any of the financial risk? They should get a paycheck when the work they generate isn't profitable, and then reap royalties when it is? Cake and eat it too?

Because the work is, to a certain extent, the result of their effort. Residuals are the element that make most writers willing to accept lower pay up front: if studios were willing to pay more up front, they might not have to give residuals. Any time you see someone accepting deferred compensation, it is usually the employers idea to have it as such, to reduce their up front costs (in point of fact, it is the studios who originally wanted to give residuals, on the theory that they would have to pay less up front, and only pay out more if a project was successful enough to be shown repeatedly).

The reality is that writers get paid less up front than they would if they were not promised residuals. Now, studios are making a pile of money in various areas and not paying residuals on them, which justifiably makes the writers unhappy.

Despite the quaint desire to have an underdog to root for, the truth is that everyone is out to screw everyone. Every little group is trying to look after their own members' interests. Producers, writers, directors, everybody. There are no victims, just some groups are worse victimizers than others.

Very few groups are so out to screw those who they work with that their business practices have become notorious as a result. The movers and shakers of the movie and television industry is one of those groups, with the monikers "Hollywood Accounting" and "Monkey Points" being coined to describe some of the most egregious known examples.

Of course, engaging in illegal labor practices by misnaming positions to prevent them from being eligible to join a union, and then firing the people in those positions when they bring an action to rectify that situation is probably worse than engaging in deceptive accounting practices. And the studios do that too.

So really, the studios have no leg to stand on here. None at all.

 

[Storm Raven]

Does anyone really think the writers are suffering worse than an auto assembly line worker? Those guys don't get a slice of the profits based on how well the cars they build sell.

For a lot of unionized jobs, they do - it is called profit sharing.

Many businesses no longer offer any kind of health insurance to permanent employees, for instance. And in many states, at-will-firing laws get passed to deny employees the luxury of a labor union. It's tough all over.

Most unions place, as a high priority, getting their members health insurance. In many ways, unions are a way of increasing the number of employers who offer health insurance. In the case of the WGA, those who are members of the union are entitled to health insurance, while the reality show and animation writers are the ones who usually don't get it as a benefit of their employment. (And the uninsured issue, while an issue, is somewhat overblown - about 85% of U.S. residents have health insurance, which means most employers are still providing it).

Just about every state has at-will laws - that's the default condition. The union contract may change that, notwithstanding the at-will law. That's one of the benefits union members usually have. What you may be thinking of is "right-to-work" laws that some states have, but they don't prohibit unions either, they just make it impossible to have a "closed shop".

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Honestly, if the big problem with being a writer is lack of job security and being screwed by their employer, then it sounds like the writers feel the same pinch that every middle-class American is feeling.

That's exactly the case. I'm not sure where (or even if) you might have gotten the impression that it was any different. It is their visibility (the US being such an entertainment minded nation, in many ways) that makes this an issue.

Does anyone really think the writers are suffering worse than an auto assembly line worker? Those guys don't get a slice of the profits based on how well the cars they build sell.

The UAW is the single largest union in the nation, with so much political and economic pull that it puts the WGA and every other union to shame. I'd definitely say that the writers are worse off than auto workers, though again, their situations are fundamentally the same (corporations looking to find every way possible to maximize their own profits at the expense of the worker).

Autoworkers generally (as I understand it) have an ability to get stock in their company, as well, which is something writers don't have.

Many businesses no longer offer any kind of health insurance to permanent employees, for instance.

And a lot of businesses that never offered health insurance to part-time employees do so now.

And in many states, at-will-firing laws get passed to deny employees the luxury of a labor union. It's tough all over.

Again, nobody's saying that it isn't. I'm not really sure what your point is.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

The "average WGA member" thing is highly misleading.

Hmmm, true. If the number I mentioned (Don't remember where I found it... NPR maybe) is a true mean, then a few well paid writers would inflate that number dramatically. What might be more interesting is seeing the median and mode salaries for WGA members. I'd be curious to see those numbers.

 

[Storm Raven]

Hmmm, true. If the number I mentioned (Don't remember where I found it... NPR maybe) is a true mean, then a few well paid writers would inflate that number dramatically. What might be more interesting is seeing the median and mode salaries for WGA members. I'd be curious to see those numbers.

Just as an example, James Cameron is a member of the WGA - and is compensated substantially for his writing. It takes a lot of $20,000 a year screenwriters in the same pool he is in to result in an "average salary of $200,000".

 

[Mistwell]

Well, to be fair, the writers on animation and reality shows would actually like to be covered by the WGA. At least that's the way I understand it from reading and seeing complaints by people in those fields. As I understand things, they are not currently covered by any guild, and thus have very few benefits and little protection as far as their workers' rights go (I've seen others in this thread say that they do have a guild, but that isn't the case to my knowledge).

That is not accurate.

First, they do not want to join WGA. They could at any time. There is nothing at all stopping them from joining. In fact, it would be illegal to try and stop any animator or reality show writer from joining the WGA.

Second, animation writers DO belong to another union. It's the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE). They have a sub-section called the Animation Guild, which is specifically for "creative artists, writers and technicians" working in animation. WGA was literally trying to steal IATSE members by force, using the production contract to do it. It was an incredibly stupid power play, made primarily by one main guy at WGA (who will likely see the loss of his own job, quietly, in the next year). You can view the IATSE/Animation Guild position on the strike here: http://www.animationguild.org/_Home/home_FRM1.html .

Third, as for reality show writers, it's an incredibly complex issue. I'll try to sum it up simply: the people who write reality shows almost always also produce them, and direct them, and edit them, and even act in them sometimes! They cannot really join one union without having a conflict of interest, since they do the work of all the unions, and cannot with confidence state at any given time what percentage of work will fall where. It's totally chaotic, and on the fly. They decide as things happen if someone needs to become an editor that hour, or write something, or direct a scene, for film a scene, or mike a scene, or walk by the background of a scene, or do the work of a producer. WGA knows this. They know that the way the contracts work for reality show employees they could never actually gain the benefits of a writing contract because they would never have the "primary" role of writer. But, they would still have to pay dues.

The whole "animation and reality show writers" claim was purely a power play, and I thought it was a very ugly and stupid thing to go after. WGA rank and file didn't want it, the animators and reality show "writers" didn't want it, and the only folks that wanted it were the ones trying to increase WGA jurisdiction because it meant more money for the union and more power because of additional members. I'm really glad those claims were ditched, and the guy who was so obsessed with them was moved entirely out of the negotiation process in the end (and I am betting will be fired).

 

[Mistwell]

Good for you. We always need more people to side with those who routinely screw those who work for them. I mean really, we gotta make sure to stick it to the people being screwed or else everything will fall apart.

Acting like Hollywood Writers, who earn an average income far above almost anyone on this board, are the poor oppressed folks always getting screwed by The Man, isn't very persuasive.

Whether you side with the WGA, the Producers, or are neutral on this issue, I think it is very silly to try and portray it as "The Man Keeping the Poor Little Workers Down". This was an in-house feud between two unions with on-average wealthy memberships. And while there are some "little guy" writers involved, it's no more or less than the number of "little guy" producers involved.

 

[Mistwell]

Absolutely. The average WGA writer does not make 200k. At best, the "average" writer earns about what your average middle income worker does- I'd guess somewhere in the 30k to 60k range. Certainly livable, but the lion's share of the WGA membership are not in stable, month to month jobs, and can go several weeks to months between jobs as well.

Reality writers are definitely by and large screwed over by the system, and apparently animation writers are as well (which is something I didn't realize until recently- I wasn't even aware the WGA was trying to get them instated as guild members, though I've known about the reality writer situation for some time).

Guys, they released the actual numbers for the full time writers. It was a real average of $200K a year, not an average skewed by a few extremely highly paid guys. Remember, these folks live here in Los Angeles. Average pays for all jobs are higher than most other places in the country. It really, truly was $200K actual average, not $30K to $60K. And while it obviously will be lower for part time workers, it SHOULD be lower for part time workers!

As for animation and reality writers - see my other post on that issue.