D&D 5E Yes, No, Warlord

[EzekielRaiden]

Rogue's are the ones that make it tricky.

Giving up 2d6+dex+dex (assuming TWF), for 11d6+dex as a reaction (+die), could easily be worth while.
Not including the possibility of assassinate crits.


If sneak attack wasn't the way it is, then it would be rather weak.

It frustrates me greatly that the class features of a single class are so overwhelmingly powerful that they turn an ability that would be underpowered into potentially broken by their interaction.

It's like..."Sure, Sweetralow is perfectly safe. As long as you don't mix it with a meaningful concentration of malic acid. Then it becomes lethally poisonous. Citric acid? Fine, fine, no problems there. Ascorbic? Acetic? You're golden. Just don't put it in apple juice."

It's like...what's really the problem here? Granting attacks, or Sneak Attack? And if Sneak Attack is so bad, why don't we just clause it out? "This attack cannot benefit from Sneak Attack and related features."

 

[mellored]

It's quite useful in instances where another party member can deliver a devastating blow (e.g. Sneak Attack, Divine Smite) or the Battlemaster can't effectively deal damage that round (e.g. out of range, restrained, debuffed, creature is resistant/immune to the Battlemaster's weapon, etc).

Divine smite isn't much of a problem. Doing a smite on the battlemaster's turn, means you don't have the slot to do on your turn.
Granted damage now > damage later, as it may be enough to kill the monster who's next in intuitive, but teamwork is allowed to have advantages.

The issue is still rogues. Though to be fair, rogues normal damage is on the low side.

 

[Imaro]

Which means the Paladin and Barbarian can't dominate an area, although the other points do stand.

Not sure what you mean by "can't dominate an area"...

My point, however, is it's as powerful as any other reaction attack.

This is incorrect as you are discounting versatility. It's a reaction attack that can be directed anywhere on the battlefield where there's an ally you can see.

 

[Minigiant]

The Warlord-Rogue/Barbarian thing illustrates one of the issues.

If Warlords is a subclass, then it can't be made too powerful.
This upset people who want a subclass feature to have the power of a major class feature.
Therefore the only way to make the subclass the driving part of a character is to find synergy to crank the subclass feature to its highest allowed strength.

However if the subclass is made into a full class, more leeway is allowed and you can add power to it and shave off any unwarranted synergies. Same with classes like the artificer, assassin, avenger, etc.

 

[Imaro]

Divine smite isn't much of a problem. Doing a smite on the battlemaster's turn, means you don't have the slot to do on your turn.
Granted damage now > damage later, as it may be enough to kill the monster who's next in intuitive, but teamwork is allowed to have advantages.

The issue is still rogues. Though to be fair, rogues normal damage is on the low side.

I think the issue goes beyond rogues the ability to get an off turn attack with the damage boosters I've seen the classes in my campaign have past say level 4 or 5 imakes Commander's Strike alot more powerful than people seem to be giving it credit for. It's not an easy choice with the Battlemaster because he can...

1. Usually match or possibly exceed some of the other martial attackers
2. Use other maneuvers with different effects that may be more advantageous in the moment

But my understanding is that the Warlord would be significantly weaker than a full fledged fighter and thus this would be a way more powerful option for him to use. Or am I missing something?

 

[Ristamar]

Divine smite isn't much of a problem. Doing a smite on the battlemaster's turn, means you don't have the slot to do on your turn.
Granted damage now > damage later, as it may be enough to kill the monster who's next in intuitive, but teamwork is allowed to have advantages.

I wasn't trying to point out problems with anything, I was merely noting that Commander's Strike can often be useful. And while a slot used via a Commander's Strike may be gone, the Paladin can always use a different slot on his own turn.

 

[mellored]

Attempt to find compromise #242


Level 1:
Tactical Superiority: You gain a 1d4 superiority die which you can spend on a variety of maneuvers. You regain this die at the end of your turn. The size of the die and number of dice increase according to the level chart. You can spend more then 1 die on a maneuver. Unless other wise noted, creatures affected by these maneuvers must be able to see and hear you, and must be within 10' multiplied by your Int modifier (minimum 5'). So 16 int would give you 30' range.

Timely Advice: When a creature misses with an attack, you can use your reaction and spend dice to add to their attack roll, potentially causing the attack to hit. If you roll multiple dice, only add the highest roll.

Warning Shout: When a creature is hit by an attack, you can use your reaction and spend dice to add to their attack roll, potentially causing the attack to hit. If you roll multiple dice, only subtract the highest roll.

Warlord Strike: When you hit an enemy, you can expend your dice deal extra damage equal to the total roll.


Level 2:
First Aid: You gain proficiency with the healers kit. As a bonus action you can spend 1 use of the healer's kit and your dice to quickly bandage wounds of a creature within reach. They regain hit points equal to your roll. A creature cannot regain hit points from this feature again until it takes a shot rest.

Inspiring Words: As an action, you can spend dice to encourage an ally. They gain temporary hit points equal to your die roll.

Level 3: (sub-class)
*Medic: When you use first aid, the target regains additional hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier.
*Inspirational: When you use Inspiring Word, the targets gain additional temporary hit points equal to your Charisma modifier.
*Bravada: You gain proficiency in heavy armor. You gain a fighting style.
*Herald: While holding the banner, flag, totem, or other large symbol, your tactical superiority range is doubled. If you hold an extra large banner (2-handed), your tactical superiority range is tripped.

4: Feat

5: Advanced Maneuvers: You gain a second superiority die. You can use advanced maneuvers, which take a minimum of 2 dice.
Mass Inspiring Word: You use an action can expend 2 dice to give temporary hit points to all allies in your tactical range equal to the highest roll.
Direct the Strike: As an action, you can spend 2 dice and allow an ally to make an attack as a reaction. Add the highest die roll to the damage if they hit.

 

[Yunru]

Not sure what you mean by "can't dominate an area"...




This is incorrect as you are discounting versatility. It's a reaction attack that can be directed anywhere on the battlefield where there's an ally you can see.

It costs your reaction to be granted an attack, so you can't take Opportunity Attacks.

And yes, it is more versatile than an opportunity attack; but it costs someone's attack and bonus action. Hell if it just cost an attack and their reaction it might be better.

 

[Ristamar]

It costs your reaction to be granted an attack, so you can't take Opportunity Attacks.

And yes, it is more versatile than an opportunity attack; but it costs someone's attack and bonus action. Hell if it just cost an attack and their reaction it might be better.

As it's written, it creates difficult, yet tactically interesting choices. That seems like good design to me.

 

[ZickZak]

Attempt to find compromise #242
Level 1:
Tactical Superiority: You gain a 1d4 superiority die which you can spend on a variety of maneuvers. You regain this die at the end of your turn.

Everything On-Use that is somewhat significant is limited. Excluding level 20.
Barbarians rage has the most (6) uses per day on lvl 17. And that is with several limitations. Druid Wild Shape, 2x. And that is a signature class feature.
Yes, both are longer than one-timers but Bards Inspiration, Channel Divinity, Action Surge, Indomitable...

You are trying to create something that is effectively a resourceless class.