Why are thrown weapons so underwhelming?

H

Herschel

Adventurer

• May 14, 2011

• #1

Yeah, it'sorning and I'm tired but I've been playing around with characters using thrown weapons instead of the standard bow/crossbow and finding they just don't offer much of anything in the way of advantages.

Bows: +2/d10 (d12 superior) range 10/20.
Crossbows: +2/d10 (+3 superior) also good range

Thrown?
Drow Long Knife: +3, but only a d6 and half the range and need a feat just to use)
Tratnyr: +2/d8 to get the 10/20 range and need a feat just to use also.

Versatile is also not a big deal if using primarily ranged powers. Not switching weapons is only occasionally useful and with master at arms, trivial. I'm just not seeing the great benefits of thrown weapons to bring them on par with bows/crossbows. So very few characters can actually pull off a range/melee combination with solely weapons as it is I'm not sure there's really much benefit. The throw and charge ranger got nailed with a nerf bat.

Weapon die size becomes less an issue over time but is morese early, when most characters seem to be played.

 

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keterys

First Post

• May 14, 2011

• #2

Well, most crossbows do have a load action to consider - if you compare the +3/d6, R10/20 hand crossbow instead of the superior crossbow (with an extra load feat or item enhancement) it looks slightly better...

But, yes, I do believe they've overcosted the ability to easily take an opportunity attack. It's certainly useful, but it shouldn't be worth more than a point of damage or a range category.

In the case of the drow long knife, it's also "Off-Hand", which means you should probably compare to the short sword. At which point, it's a short sword with the "throwable" added for the feat. If you're using it more for that, it'll look better too.

I think if thrown were generally +3, they could compare more easily to bow's at +2 but more damaging, and crossbows at +3, more damaging, requiring extra investment (feat, item, whatever)...

 

S

S'mon

Legend

• May 14, 2011

• #3

My Essentials Thief uses a thrown dagger instead of a shortbow; for d4 instead of d8 I get +1 to hit, I don't have to worry about being forced into melee, and light blade expertise (+1 dmg w CA) is better than bow expertise (+1 dmg if foe has no ally adjacent) for me.

My Fighter is perfectly happy with a thrown javelin, it might only be a d6 but I get to use STR instead of DEX and it's a back-up weapon anyway.

 

Nifft

Penguin Herder

• May 14, 2011

• #4

HUNGRY GREATSPEAR! (+3/1d10)
Enhancement: starts at level 2, Uncommon
Critical: +1d6 damage per plus
Property: This weapon has the heavy thrown property and a range of 10/20.

Power (Encounter): Standard Action. Make a ranged basic attack with this spear. On a hit, the target is also immobilized (save ends). The spear doesn’t return to you until the immobilized effect on the target imposed by this weapon is ended.

- - -

This thrown weapon whelms hard.

Cheers, -- N

 

Incenjucar

Legend

• May 14, 2011

• #5

Thrown weapons are actually pretty useful, especially if you don't want to waste your expertise feat on Master at Arms, and especially if your off-hand is occupied (with another weapon, with a shield, grabbing, etc.).

The main thing I see is that they need to make MORE thrown melee weapons so that there are more to work with.

 

Obryn

Hero

• May 14, 2011

• #6

I think thrown weapons were intended as backups. Or else, as a way to get extra versatility from your melee weapons. So, they lost some stats as a result.

This theory falls apart as soon as you get classes who focus on thrown weapons, like the Spiritbond Seeker, but ah well.

-O

 

Incenjucar

Legend

• May 14, 2011

• #7

I'd love to see thrown weapons that get a bonus when thrown, making them ranged-primary.

 

S

Smoke Jaguar

First Post

• May 14, 2011

• #8

I don't know why. I agree with you. It is kind of frustrating and underwhelming. I would love to play with a rogue/assassin that throws knives/darts/stars.

 

fuzzlewump

First Post

• May 14, 2011

• #9

Obryn said:

I think thrown weapons were intended as backups. Or else, as a way to get extra versatility from your melee weapons. So, they lost some stats as a result.

This theory falls apart as soon as you get classes who focus on thrown weapons, like the Spiritbond Seeker, but ah well.

-O

Click to expand...

Getting a 'Dwarven Thrower' Mordenkrad, and tossing those around as a Seeker... oh lawd. Get all RBA and all the appropriate feats and items to boost RBAs, and you rarely miss and do a ton of damage. Well, not striker level, and you don't really have much control either, but if you are dedicated to playing a Seeker as I was, I thought it was pretty cool if a bit mediocre.

EDIT: Dwarven Throwers can be applied to Axes or Hammers, and turn them into heavy thrown weapons 6/12. I switched between Execution Axe and the Mordenkrad for the concept, and played Dwarf with Dwarf Weapon Training to have both; if you have someone who can knock prone frequently like a monk, hunter, or what have you, then you can pick Headsman Chop(feat) with your throwing Execution Axe and execute (get +5 damage) against prone targets up to 12 squares away from you. That is.. just awesome.

 

Last edited: May 14, 2011

H

Herschel

Adventurer

• May 14, 2011

• #10

Obryn said:

I think thrown weapons were intended as backups. Or else, as a way to get extra versatility from your melee weapons. So, they lost some stats as a result.

This theory falls apart as soon as you get classes who focus on thrown weapons, like the Spiritbond Seeker, but ah well.

-O

Click to expand...

Yep, the seeker and a Warlord concept are where it's breaking down. Sure there's specific weapon enhancements that help, but I find relying on getting those is pretty harsh.