CapnZapp
Legend
I think you should reconsider, and start using your low-level slots for utility, not damage.
Cantrip Auto-Scaling - A 5e Critique
CapnZapp
Legend
Addendum: to answer how to actually fix it, my best suggestion is to limit the number of cantrips you can use.
Perhaps something as simple as "you can cast a number of cantrips equal to your spellcasting ability modifier +3. You regain all spent uses after taking a short or long rest".
This might not change much from your perspective, but it does change the balance slightly (in the favor of spells over cantrips).
But mostly it fixes a personal bugbear of mine - how casters can cast Firebolt or Acid Splash all day long, every round for hours on end, and how this breaks world verisimiltude. Need to dispose of a corpse? Just dissolve it with an endless number of acid cantrips! Need to break out of sheriff's jail? Just burn a hole in the wall! After all, a "cantrip" than can kill a grown man in one or two blasts (a commoner), can't be said to have "no effect" on the environment! *blech*
Perhaps something as simple as "you can cast a number of cantrips equal to your spellcasting ability modifier +3. You regain all spent uses after taking a short or long rest".
This might not change much from your perspective, but it does change the balance slightly (in the favor of spells over cantrips).
But mostly it fixes a personal bugbear of mine - how casters can cast Firebolt or Acid Splash all day long, every round for hours on end, and how this breaks world verisimiltude. Need to dispose of a corpse? Just dissolve it with an endless number of acid cantrips! Need to break out of sheriff's jail? Just burn a hole in the wall! After all, a "cantrip" than can kill a grown man in one or two blasts (a commoner), can't be said to have "no effect" on the environment! *blech*
CapnZapp
Legend
True, but at high level, your save DC becomes relatively much better (monster saves stay relatively low). So while the DPR (damage per round) of a 1d10 low-level cantrip might not be much more than half of the average of 5, the DPR of a 4d10 high-level cantrip is easily 80% of the average of 22.
And so while the damage dice is "only" quadrupled, the actual DPR might have increased by a factor of seven.
(Example simplified for clarity)
W
WhosDaDungeonMaster
Guest
This is pretty much incorrect. Many cantrips require an attack roll, not a save. Since casters are about as likely to hit as warriors, this makes casters at higher level pretty good damage dealers with cantrips alone.
To me its less reality than perception. That d10 forever bugged a former gm, but it was the guiding bolts, fog clouds, etc that really did the work when it mattered.
Cantrips did not scale up to stay viable, the scaled up to stay low end trivial - if nothing else to do why not type options.
Even at 1st level, dagger was as good avg. Now later the cantrip,outpaced the dagger sure. But they stayed just filler not core offense...
Exception - some class abilities obviously change math - warlock favors cantrips, sorc favors slotted, etc.
Acid down a jail wall? No shackles? No hoods? Nobody hearing verbals? What, did your magic characters get dropped into a jail in a non-magic world?
Cantrips did not scale up to stay viable, the scaled up to stay low end trivial - if nothing else to do why not type options.
Even at 1st level, dagger was as good avg. Now later the cantrip,outpaced the dagger sure. But they stayed just filler not core offense...
Exception - some class abilities obviously change math - warlock favors cantrips, sorc favors slotted, etc.
Acid down a jail wall? No shackles? No hoods? Nobody hearing verbals? What, did your magic characters get dropped into a jail in a non-magic world?
FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
Ya'll really know how to ignore what someone is posting about.
I get that at some point casting damage spells out of low level spell slots becomes pointless. I get that means that currently you will exclusively use those slots for utility spells. Why wouldn't you?
But that's really not the question I'm asking. I don't care how to best make use of low level spell slots as a high level wizard. I already know how to do that. But the question more is, "wouldn't the edition have been better if low level damage spells still were meaningful options at higher levels?"
I get that at some point casting damage spells out of low level spell slots becomes pointless. I get that means that currently you will exclusively use those slots for utility spells. Why wouldn't you?
But that's really not the question I'm asking. I don't care how to best make use of low level spell slots as a high level wizard. I already know how to do that. But the question more is, "wouldn't the edition have been better if low level damage spells still were meaningful options at higher levels?"
Hawk Diesel
Adventurer
I don't know that I agree with your assumption regarding cantrips leading to the breakage of versimilitude, at least no more than how mechanically a fighter could literally swing a maul up to 4 times per 6 seconds without tire for the length of an entire day. I mean, a fighter could also swing his maul all day long at the wall of that jail. A maul can kill a man, in one or two blows, but that alone does not mean it's fit to punch through a stone wall given enough time. Equally, given enough time you could dispose of a body with a sword or maul just as well as unlimited acid splash. Plus, in the example of the jail, a spellcaster typically still needs a focus to cast most cantrips, which I imagine would be taken upon capture.
And yes, you can assume you can cast cantrips all day without rest. But then you need to equally assume a fighter can attack all day without rest because mechanically there is no limit. But realistically, a spellcasters is going to tire casting repeated cantrips just as much as a fighter making repeated attacks, if not more so. Magic requires intense focus and concentration, an may also physically exhaust the user just as much as any physical activity.
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FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
Mechanically it works. I don't think it works aesthetically.
The best mechanical and aesthetic solutions I can think of involve scaling the damage up just a little on lower level spells. I think 3rd level and above spells are fine. But 1st and 2nd level damage spells could use a little love.
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