D&D 5E Is Xanathars The New UA? AKA A Munchkins Book

Chaosmancer · Aug 14, 2018

One thought that I've had while reading this thread is that, if the argument of the OP was that Xanathar's Guide was full of overpowered options, how does he explain the heavily nerfed fighter options that were presented?

I was excited for the original UA Samurai, and intrigued by the Cavalier being mixed with the Knight, but both got nerfed into the ground by the time the book was printed by putting all of their resources into Long Rest mechanics.

Then there are plenty middle of the road options, like the Zealot and Ancestor Barbarian and the various monks and rangers.

This is more of mixed bag than just warlock cheese and a single healing spell

Treantmonklvl20 · Aug 14, 2018

Pauper said:
In reality, though, we covered the exact scenario in our game last night.
Pauper

Minus Wall of force contained high CR swarms.

Pauper said:
First, we had a civil discussion of what it means to have the 'window' that the PCs can see out of...

I think you might be over thinking it. The spell says the window looks through the extradimensional space. It would be centered on the rope because the rope goes through that space when the spell is cast. There is nothing in the description that would give me any reason to think the window is mobile.

and there is no explicit definition of how large the space is, only how many creatures it can hold.)

The way we play in my group, is the spell sets the parameters, but the player can fill in the non-mechanical stuff. The spell says that the space can fit 8 medium creatures, so anything that makes sense with that should be fine. A necromancer's space might have an earthen floor, with gravestones sticking out and a pale green glow filling the area. An illusionists space might have indistinct walls with a blowing mist that take various shapes as they blow around. My Enchanter with the Noble Background's space would include a plush red cushion for him to sit on and have the image of his family crest on a wall, and it might be more spacious so everyone can stretch out...

Dausuul · Aug 14, 2018

Pauper said:
The two backup guards came out ten minutes after the party entered the rope trick, examined the area, and pulled their dead colleagues into the temple. They then remained out of sight for roughly 40 minutes -- they were reporting to the priest of Hextor, who deduced that the party was likely hiding out in a rope trick, as the only other exit from the dungeon was to climb up a 200-foot length of chain, but decided that it wasn't worth expending the resources to expose them, preferring to send his tieflings out into the chamber to report when the party emerged from the rope trick so that he could release the temple's giant boar against them.

Note to self: When using rope trick to rest after killing guards, be sure to bring the guards' corpses into the rope trick. (Yeah, it's a little icky, but adventurers deal with far worse ick on a regular basis. It's not like they're going to turn bloated and stinking in an hour.)

The backup guards would still have been suspicious, but at least they wouldn't have had dead bodies on the spot to tell them where to be suspicious at.

Zardnaar · Aug 15, 2018

Chaosmancer said:
One thought that I've had while reading this thread is that, if the argument of the OP was that Xanathar's Guide was full of overpowered options, how does he explain the heavily nerfed fighter options that were presented?

I was excited for the original UA Samurai, and intrigued by the Cavalier being mixed with the Knight, but both got nerfed into the ground by the time the book was printed by putting all of their resources into Long Rest mechanics.

Then there are plenty middle of the road options, like the Zealot and Ancestor Barbarian and the various monks and rangers.

This is more of mixed bag than just warlock cheese and a single healing spell

Same thing in the original UA. XGtE has a large amount of fondue cheesiness in it, never claimed it was right across the board.

Don't get me wrong I love the book (not because of the cheese) but even things like the tables of names in the back I like a lot.

Parmandur · Aug 15, 2018

Zardnaar said:
Same thing in the original UA. XGtE has a large amount of fondue cheesiness in it, never claimed it was right across the board.

Don't get me wrong I love the book (not because of the cheese) but even things like the tables of names in the back I like a lot.

It's really just not very cheesy, though; it's not even 3.x *-book cheesy, let alone UA levels.

CapnZapp · Aug 15, 2018

Mistwell said:
A lot of people don't play with wandering monsters, or their DMs don't use wandering monsters very often (despite pages and pages of wandering monster charts in the books). When you play with what is essentially an unwritten optional rule to not use wandering monsters most of the time, rope trick loses a LOT of utility. You can just rest in a cleared room for an hour without it, under those scenarios.

And some DMs realize wandering monsters are useless at disincentivizing rests.

The only real solution is for the PHB not to offer so absurdly generous resting rules in the first place.

Ancalagon · Aug 15, 2018

CapnZapp said:
The only real solution is for the PHB not to offer so absurdly generous resting rules in the first place.

The statement is a bit too vague - in what way are they too generous?

Maxperson · Aug 15, 2018

CapnZapp said:
And some DMs realize wandering monsters are useless at disincentivizing rests.

The only real solution is for the PHB not to offer so absurdly generous resting rules in the first place.

Wandering monsters were never about disincentivizing rests, though. They were about being a random tax on resources, and during rest periods, to disrupt the rest. If you are on any kind of time table, losing a rest period is huge.

Mistwell · Aug 15, 2018

CapnZapp said:
And some DMs realize wandering monsters are useless at disincentivizing rests.

I can't imagine why they wouldn't be. Any competent DM should get plenty of utility out of wandering monsters as a disincentive to unsecured rest. They find you, and one runs for additional help while the others waste party time fighting. Before you know it, a horde is on you. How are you not finding wandering monsters to be useful to disincentivize unsecured rests? It's one of the primary purposes of those monsters and all those tables and the encounter prediction estimates and that whole set of rules and those spells which allow you to hide like the one in question. What did you think all those alarm type spells and hidey-hole spells and fixed longer term illusion and trap spells and door-securing equipment stuff and all of those wandering monster charts and all of that was intended for?

Mistwell · Aug 15, 2018

Maxperson said:
Wandering monsters were never about disincentivizing rests, though. They were about being a random tax on resources, and during rest periods, to disrupt the rest. If you are on any kind of time table, losing a rest period is huge.

Yes so how is that not about disincentivizing unsecured rests (and that was what we were discussing - resting in an unsecure place, not rests in general)?