Greataxe, greatsword, and a little math

jaelis · Apr 1, 2018

It occurs to me that I’d probably be satisfied with pretty much any little extra benefit to give the axe, as long as it fit (my idea of) the flavor. Like, do an extra die of damage when you hit a helpless opponent. Or maybe extra damage on a crit would be more straightforward, in the end.

GWF might still bug me though.

Ganymede81 · Apr 2, 2018

Add me to the "Just make it do 2d6 damage" club.

guachi · Apr 2, 2018

I like your proposal, OP. I'd not thought of that as an option.

I've thought of two others. One is the easy idea of letting a PC choose 2d6 or 1d12 for his greataxe/sword and go from there. He can't choose each attack, obviously. That would be silly. But state "this is my greataxe. It does 2d6 damage"

The second is to allow rerolls on a greataxe of 1-4 when used with GWF. With 2d6 there are four values that can be rerolled (1 and 2 on either die) and rerolling a 1-4 on a d12 also allows 4 possible values for a reroll.

Greenstone.Walker · Apr 3, 2018

Paul Farquhar said:
As it happens, there are a couple of abilities that work better with an greataxe than a greatsword: Savage Attacks (half orc), Brutal Critical (barbarian), Savage Attacker (feat).

These abilities encourage the trope of barbarians using axes.

A sword is dependable. Low change of really good swings but also a low chance of really bad swings. An axe is more random. You might get a 12 but you have an equal chance of a 6 or a 1.

GlassJaw · Apr 3, 2018

Another annoying anomaly of the 5E weapon chart: the greatclub. What a completely useless weapon. It makes absolutely no sense why you would ever choose this weapon over the quarterstaff.

The greatclub does 1d8 damage and must be used with two hands. The quarterstaff also does 1d8 damage two-handed AND can be used one-handed. It costs the same but weighs 2 lbs versus 10 for the greatclub. Huh?

So much of 5E's design is clean and streamlined but makes sense and not watered down. But it's like the weapon chart was a complete throw-away with little to no concern to make it interesting or even make sense. I don't get it.

pogre · Apr 3, 2018

GlassJaw said:
Another annoying anomaly of the 5E weapon chart: the greatclub. What a completely useless weapon. It makes absolutely no sense why you would ever choose this weapon over the quarterstaff.

The greatclub does 1d8 damage and must be used with two hands. The quarterstaff also does 1d8 damage two-handed AND can be used one-handed. It costs the same but weighs 2 lbs versus 10 for the greatclub. Huh?

So much of 5E's design is clean and streamlined but makes sense and not watered down. But it's like the weapon chart was a complete throw-away with little to no concern to make it interesting or even make sense. I don't get it.

As you know, the weapon charts are not of huge concern to me, but as this thread shows - it does to a lot of folks. Why don't you do a DMs' Guild piece called Weapon Charts That Make Sense*? Borrow some ideas from Trailblazer about making weapons choices more meaningful. I think a lot of folks would appreciate it.

This is not "If you don't like the rules change them" throwaway comment. It's an honest suggestion.

*I'm sure you could make a catchier title!

Coroc · Apr 3, 2018

[MENTION=22103]GlassJaw[/MENTION] #95 The greatclub is perfect (e.g. for druids). What does not make sense at all is the Quarterstaff. It should do max 1d6 and require 2 handed use and not be usable with polearm master.

Saw the tip of your spear thereby not reducing the damage and making the weapon usable with polearm master ? WTF this does not make sense to me.

1 handed use of a stick which is to unwieldy for one handed use because of ist length but do as much damage as a spear / shortsword etc. by what??
Poking at your enemy with the blunt end? The quarterstaff is the most ridicolous fail in the weapon table and gets fixed by houserule in my personal campaign accordingly. The Designers of the game should fix this with errata imho, because from game mechanical Point This is really unbalancing.

Paul Farquhar · Apr 3, 2018

GlassJaw said:
Another annoying anomaly of the 5E weapon chart: the greatclub. What a completely useless weapon. It makes absolutely no sense why you would ever choose this weapon over the quarterstaff.

The greatclub does 1d8 damage and must be used with two hands. The quarterstaff also does 1d8 damage two-handed AND can be used one-handed. It costs the same but weighs 2 lbs versus 10 for the greatclub. Huh?

So much of 5E's design is clean and streamlined but makes sense and not watered down. But it's like the weapon chart was a complete throw-away with little to no concern to make it interesting or even make sense. I don't get it.

It's entirely logical that an unmanufactured lump of wood should be a less effective weapon than even a quarterstaff - cut, shaped and shod with iron. The greatclub is in there for people who want to play a caveman. And, as it happens, players who select inferior weapons for role playing reasons tend to be luckier when it comes to finding magic items they can use. Funny, that.

Cap'n Kobold · Apr 3, 2018

GlassJaw said:
Another annoying anomaly of the 5E weapon chart: the greatclub. What a completely useless weapon. It makes absolutely no sense why you would ever choose this weapon over the quarterstaff.

The greatclub, like the trident, and hide armour, is not necessarily there for the use of the players.
Its a staple for many humanoid monsters and suchlike that don't have the capability to make more advanced weapons/armour, or to which the weapon is iconic. Its unlikely that any players are going to go out and buy them as their go-to weapon/armour, but they may have occasion to use them.

But yes. I agree that the quarterstaff is a mess. I flat-out houseruled that it was a 2-handed weapon.

Coroc · Apr 3, 2018

[MENTION=6906155]Paul Farquhar[/MENTION] #98 It is entirely logic that a blunt weapon of a certain weight and length does as much damage as a slightly heavier weapon with a bit shorter length so like greatclub and mace doing 1d8.

It is not logic at all that adding a spear tip to a quarterstaff will not add anything to it's damage and make it less usefull (no Polearm master anymore)

It is also not logic a 1 handed Club does 1d4 but an unwieldy (if used 1 handed) quarterstaff should do 1d6 and allow the use of a effective use shield still.
That is utter BS sorry i have to use strong words, because almost every one discusses the marginal differences between great axe and greatsword and does not see the elephant (quarterstaff) in the room.