D&D 5E Help - Battle Master Superiority Dice Variant Rule Requested by Player

Hi all!

I have a player getting ready to take the Battle Master archetype and he had a request. Rather than having a set number of Superiority Dice to use per short rest, he's asked for a way to roll during each round of combat to see if he sees an "opening" in his enemy's defenses to perform a maneuver. I told him I love the idea and would get back with him on the specifics by next session.

So I basically see two ways of doing this, I could go the complicated way and compare some sort of deception or perception check from my PC against a deception or perception check from the enemy or could just work out the averages on a die role so that he gets about the same amount of Maneuvers per short rest. The check would occur at the start of his turn each round, and if he succeeds, can use 1 maneuver anytime until the start of his next turn.

Let's take the second option first. Assuming 10-12 rounds of combat per short rest on average, I'm thinking to start him by needing to role a 5-6 on a d6 at 3rd level, 4-6 at 10th and 3-6 at 15th. At the start of his turn, he would roll, and then could choose to apply a maneuver to any attack he makes that turn. The big drawback here is of course not being able to use multiple maneuvers in the same turn, but he could potentially get many more maneuvers over the course of an entire day since he is no longer restrained by needing short rests.

As for the contested check, this seems like it could get very complicated. One thought I had was to simplify it by having him role deception or perception against Monster CR + 10 (reduces to 5 at 7th and 0 at 15th), but that feels like I'm missing an opportunity to really add some variety based on the kinds of enemies the Battle Master is fighting and to allow him to really shine that he is a student of his enemy. But I'm concerned that going down a contested check path will lead either to the PC being able to use a maneuver every round against some enemies or never against others, and I can't start to figure out how to balance it to try and get the same 4-6 maneuvers per 10-12 rounds of combat.

Would love some thoughts on these two methods or any new ideas the community might have. Next session is Oct 8, so I've got some time to figure it out. Thanks in advance for the help!

That's going to be superpowerful and you're right, it might be every round. He's a fighter and already getting multiple attacks.

Another idea: Tie it to crits and crit fails. What if, perhaps, the fighter crits on the oppone t, or another ally crits on the same enemy the fighter is fighting, he gets a free maneuver? If the enemy he is fighting crit fails, it creates another opening for a free maneuver. All other maneuvers work RAW. That way he gets some extra maneuvers without spamming them. Also less delaying the game with extra rolls.

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I think the d6 method might work fine. Over the course of the day, he'll probably end up getting more maneuvers than he would've gotten by default (especially if short rests are hard to take in your campaign).
However, this is balanced by the fact that he won't be able to save his maneuvers for the toughest fights. He might get a bunch of good maneuver rolls during an easy fight with a few mooks, and get none of them against the big bad.

The unpredictability of the dice roll balances it out.

[MENTION=6801397]Olrox17[/MENTION], that's a really good point and that makes me a bit worried about the d6. With a contested check method, it feels like he might feel like he has more control over getting his maneuvers in combat and that he would be getting better against weaker foes as he levels up while still be challenged by tougher foes. I'm just not sure of the right way to implement that. Another method could be perception or deception against the enemy's passive perception, but it starts as a roll with disadvantage, goes even at 7th and then with advantage at 15th.
[MENTION=6801311]KahlessNestor[/MENTION] - well keep in mind that he can only use one maneuver per round now, so no novaing a single round of combat. I'm not too worried about slowing down with the extra rolls. The main reason the player wants to go this way is that he feels the current mechanic is too gamist, i.e. that it doesn't reflect reality well. Why can he only use 4 maneuvers per short rest? It's not a magical power. By focusing on looking for "openings" in combat, he thinks it will be more real. And that's another reason I like tying it to a specific enemy stat rather than just having it be random.

At the end of the day, I'm trying to figure out a method that is both fun for him but not completely over or under powered.

I think the second option will work fine. One of the biggest advantages of having a Battlemaster IME is the ability to use multiple maneuvers a round, so in a sense this is actually a decrease in power. Sure, he can't run out, but there's no guarantee that he will have it when he needs it and only being able to use one maneuver a round is quite limiting.

OB1, is this your first D&D campaign? Is it the group's first set of characters? Is the player new to 5th Ed?

If your answer to any or all of these questions is a "yes", then I honestly recommend you to stand your ground, and ask the player to go by the book.

Only if you have prior DM experience, the group have played together before, and the player have created at least one 5E character prior, would I recommend houseruling something so central to the subclass and character build.

Regards,
Zapp

If your player is asking for an opening on his opponent's part, then he's handing over control of his superiority dice to his opponent. Assuming these opponents use the Attack action once in a while, that opening would probably be an attack roll of 1. Or 2.

But what I hear the player saying is "I don't want to wait an hour to get my superiority dice back," and "I want a little more attention from the DM each round." I'm hoping this doesn't require its own rules subsystem.

[MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION] - I've been DMing D&D for almost 30 years, and played and Dmd 5e with this group since the Next Playtest.

It's definitely a tricky problem, which is why I"m coming to the boards for help. I'm quickly leaning towards having it be a skill check instead of a random roll, and want to build it in a way that allows for lots of maneuvers against enemies whose CR is lower than party level, about average against current CR level, and more difficult against higher CR level, but that also rewards the player for increasing one of his non primary figure stats (i.e. wisdom, intelligence or charisma).

So if I go 15+CR at 3rd for the DC, against a CR 1 creature he would need at 10 or better, or against a CR 3 a 12 or better.

Then at 10+CR at 7th, a CR 3 minion would only need a 6 or 7, while a level appropriate CR 7 would still need a 10 or 11.

Finally, at 5+CR at 15th, that CR7 becomes maybe a 3 or 4, while CR15 still needs a 10 or 11.

I like that progression okay, but am thinking about bumping up the modifier to 17, 12 and 7 or even 17, 13, and 9. For the latter, I might also allow advantage on the check if an ally is engaged with the enemy or if it's of a type of creature the PC has fought before once they've reached 15th level.

OB1 said:

I have a player getting ready to take the Battle Master archetype and he had a request. Rather than having a set number of Superiority Dice to use per short rest, he's asked for a way to roll during each round of combat to see if he sees an "opening" in his enemy's defenses to perform a maneuver. I told him I love the idea and would get back with him on the specifics by next session.

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Some of the manoeuvres are to be used to cause an opening. And getting an opening is pretty much a Reaction or Bonus Action. Recharge on a die works well for monsters because they're not around that long, but I've yet to be convinced it's good for PCs. So I'm interested to hear what your player suggests.

[MENTION=40552]Quartz[/MENTION] - I actually have been using a recharge die for the Wildmage sorcerer I play in another campaign to determine when I get my Tides of Chaos back rather than the DM deciding. It's worked well through 16 months of play and 8 levels, sometimes it's frustrating when I don't go several rolls without getting back, other times I get on a hot streak and get it back often. But both me and the DM agree that it works better than having her decide when to allow it.

That said, ToC is a very different mechanic than Maneuver dice, so the comparison isn't a great one, and again, why I'm leaning to a way to implement this so that it's more likely for him to get a maneuver against weaker enemies than strong ones rather than it just being a random roll to get an average similar to the current mechanic. I don't mind if by 8th level he's getting a maneuver once a round against every 3rd level minion he's facing as long he can't be as sure against a CR8 boss fight.