D&D 5E Does Rope Trick Heal?

Al'Kelhar · Jan 4, 2019

Mistwell said:
Yes but each of us can slay 10 of you non-healing folk because you're so weak and non-healy! Muhahahaha!*

[*I am honestly surprised it's as high as 10 given how you spun the question in the poll]

We folk who don't think Rope Trick is a "healing spell" heal just fine without it, thanks. If anything, it's the folk who think it is a healing spell who are the weaklings, needing to hide away in some extradimensional space just so they can regain the mojo that anyone else can regain just by lounging around for an hour or so.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

FrogReaver · Jan 4, 2019

Mistwell said:
Yes but each of us can slay 10 of you non-healing folk because you're so weak and non-healy! Muhahahaha!*

[*I am honestly surprised it's as high as 10 given how you spun the question in the poll]

Just curious, how should the question have been worded?

Mistwell · Jan 4, 2019

Al'Kelhar said:
No, no, and three times no. The DM "lets" you short rest if, when you say "we try to rest up here for about an hour", the DM says "sure" - wherever "here" is. A short rest is just something that occurs when an hour goes by and nothing really happens.

Leomund's Tiny Hut creates a hemisphere of force that you and others of your choosing can enter and leave, but which prevents other creatures, spell effects, and certain other objects from entering or leaving. How any PC or party chooses to use the effect of Leomund's Tin Hut is up to them.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

This is like saying a toothbrush doesn't let you brush your teeth, a toothbrush just provides you with a plastic stick and a brush on the end, and how you choose to use it is up to you.

Can we not do this? Discussion becomes impossible if people are going to focus this much on semantics while ignoring everyday practical common knowledge we all possess concerning how the game works. You know a common purpose of the spell is for a rest. I know it. We all know it. We are all familiar enough with the spell that saying it let's you take a rest should not be a controversial statement and surely such a statement should not elicit "No, no, and three times no" in reply. I mean, if saying that harmless statement causes you so much angst that you find yourself writing, "No, no, and three times no" to it, I can't imagine how you will react to a genuinely controversial topic like whether sharpshooter is overpowered.

FrogReaver · Jan 4, 2019

Al'Kelhar said:
We folk who don't think Rope Trick is a "healing spell" heal just fine without it, thanks. If anything, it's the folk who think it is a healing spell who are the weaklings, needing to hide away in some extradimensional space just so they can regain the mojo that anyone else can regain just by lounging around for an hour or so.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

In fact we may even use our own rope trick to hide and take a short rest at the same time they think their rope trick is healing them...

Mistwell · Jan 4, 2019

FrogReaver said:
Just curious, how should the question have been worded?

My first reply to it still stands up pretty well in my opinion. "In terms of looking at it from a meta rules perspective as opposed to an in-game perspective, yes absolutely it's in the category of "heals" and also "regenerates short rest based abilities"."

People were never claiming it directly healed or that it should benefit from a life cleric ability which boosts direct healing. They were always saying the spell fits in the niche of healing when it comes to types of powers found in this game (in addition to fitting in other niches of rules, like regenerating short rest abilities, and providing upward movement abilities). Similarly, temporary hit point granting spells fit in the niche of healing in this game, even though they also are not directly healing nor do they benefit from the life cleric's healing boost.

It was shorthand for the different meta roles the spell fills. However you'd word that, I think it was always obvious that's what people meant when they said it "healed" and I think if you had worded it more aimed to incorporate how you knew people were using those statements, a lot of angst would have been prevented. Like, "Does Rope Trick serve a healing role?" probably would have worked better than "Does Rope Trick Heal" given what you knew about the positions you were disputing.

FrogReaver · Jan 4, 2019

Mistwell said:
My first reply to it still stands up pretty well in my opinion. "In terms of looking at it from a meta rules perspective as opposed to an in-game perspective, yes absolutely it's in the category of "heals" and also "regenerates short rest based abilities"."

People were never claiming it directly healed or that it should benefit from a life cleric ability which boosts direct healing. They were always saying the spell fits in the niche of healing when it comes to types of powers found in this game (in addition to fitting in other niches of rules, like regenerating short rest abilities, and providing upward movement abilities). Similarly, temporary hit point granting spells fit in the niche of healing in this game, even though they also are not directly healing nor do they benefit from the life clearic's healing boost.

It was shorthand for the different meta roles the spell fills. However you'd word that, I think it was always obvious that's what people meant when they said it "healed" and I think if you had worded it more aimed to incorporate how you knew people were using those statements, a lot of angst would have been prevented. Like, "Does Rope Trick serve a healing role?" probably would have worked better than "Does Rope Trick Heal" given what you knew about the positions you were disputing.

That's a lot less controversial of a question. I think most of the nearly 90 voters on here would agree that rope trick does serve a healing/recovery role even if it also serves other roles. That wasn't the question I was concerned with though. You see an argument started on another thread when I said in passing that wizards don't get healing (spells) - which is something you agree with at least in the non-meta scope of which I was obviously referring. But the argument continued. Rope trick was ultimately cited as proof that wizards get healing (spells).

As this poll and arguments here confirm, most believe rope trick is not a healing spell. However, I'm also sure that most of these same posters would also agree that one of the roles rope trick serves is a healing/recovery role. If only that other poster who started arguing with me had simply agreed and said, yep rope trick isn't a healing spell but can serve a healing/recovery role. But he didn't. So the only way I could craft a pole to highlighted our difference of opinion was to make one about whether rope trick healed or whether it was a healing spell. Either way, the poll question wasn't spun, it was asked the only way it could have been asked to settle our disagreement.

Yunru · Jan 4, 2019

FrogReaver said:
That's a lot less controversial of a question. I think most of the nearly 90 voters on here would agree that rope trick does serve a healing/recovery role even if it also serves other roles. That wasn't the question I was concerned with though. You see an argument started on another thread when I said in passing that wizards don't get healing (spells) - which is something you agree with at least in the non-meta scope of which I was obviously referring. But the argument continued. Rope trick was ultimately cited as proof that wizards get healing (spells).

As this poll and arguments here confirm, most believe rope trick is not a healing spell. However, I'm also sure that most of these same posters would also agree that one of the roles rope trick serves is a healing/recovery role. If only that other poster who started arguing with me had simply agreed and said, yep rope trick isn't a healing spell but can serve a healing/recovery role. But he didn't. So the only way I could craft a pole to highlighted our difference of opinion was to make one about whether rope trick healed or whether it was a healing spell. Either way, the poll question wasn't spun, it was asked the only way it could have been asked to settle our disagreement.

Ahem, you might want to watch what you say when you're verify-ably lieing.

You might not that there is never once mention of them being healing spells, only that they are spells that give the Wizard options for healing.

FrogReaver · Jan 4, 2019

@Mistwell

It feels like you are trying to say I should understand what others meant by heal, when it was me that first uttered the phrase about healing that started this all. Should they not have understood what I meant by heal and thus avoided this whole episode? Why attempt to chastise me when it was their lack of understanding, or worse - extreme pedantry, that caused this?

Al'Kelhar · Jan 4, 2019

Mistwell said:
This is like saying a toothbrush doesn't let you brush your teeth, a toothbrush just provides you with a plastic stick and a brush on the end, and how you choose to use it is up to you.

Can we not do this? Discussion becomes impossible if people are going to focus this much on semantics while ignoring everyday practical common knowledge we all possess concerning how the game works. You know a common purpose of the spell is for a rest. I know it. We all know it. We are all familiar enough with the spell that saying it let's you take a rest should not be a controversial statement and surely such a statement should not elicit "No, no, and three times no" in reply. I mean, if saying that harmless statement causes you so much angst that you find yourself writing, "No, no, and three times no" to it, I can't imagine how you will react to a genuinely controversial topic like whether sharpshooter is overpowered.

Personally, I use toothbrushes for a variety of cleaning purposes, only one of which is brushing my teeth (although I do prefer not to use the same toothbrush for my teeth as I use for other things...).

OK, let me take a different approach to this issue.

My PC is being chased by a pack of wolves. He casts Phantom Steed to escape from them. A phantom steed has a speed of 100 feet, so it quickly outpaces the wolves. The spell has a duration of 1 hour. Riding a horse is light activity that you can undertake while having a short rest. At the end of the spell, I've had a short rest and, as a result of having that rest, can spend Hit Dice to regain lost hit points.

Is Phantom Steed a healing spell?

See, the bit that I really don't understand about this discussion is that, if anything is providing healing to a character, it's the short rest, not the spell. There's a logical leap being made between the casting of the spell and the healing that just doesn't exist. It's like saying Charm Person is a divination because the creature you cast it on is friendly to you and will answer your questions.

My point is not semantic. It's the point I've been making for a while now. Do not confuse the effect of a spell with an outcome that the spell might achieve. Even if that outcome is commonplace. It is the effect that defines the spell, not some downstream outcome that is contingent on the circumstances in which the spell is cast and its application in a particular case.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

Yunru · Jan 4, 2019

Al'Kelhar said:
Personally, I use toothbrushes for a variety of cleaning purposes, only one of which is brushing my teeth (although I do prefer not to use the same toothbrush for my teeth as I use for other things...).

OK, let me take a different approach to this issue.

My PC is being chased by a pack of wolves. He casts Phantom Steed to escape from them. A phantom steed has a speed of 100 feet, so it quickly outpaces the wolves. The spell has a duration of 1 hour. Riding a horse is light activity that you can undertake while having a short rest. At the end of the spell, I've had a short rest and, as a result of having that rest, can spend Hit Dice to regain lost hit points.

Is Phantom Steed a healing spell?

See, the bit that I really don't understand about this discussion is that, if anything is providing healing to a character, it's the short rest, not the spell. There's a logical leap being made between the casting of the spell and the healing that just doesn't exist. It's like saying Charm Person is a divination because the creature you cast it on is friendly to you and will answer your questions.

My point is not semantic. It's the point I've been making for a while now. Do not confuse the effect of a spell with an outcome that the spell might achieve. Even if that outcome is commonplace. It is the effect that defines the spell, not some downstream outcome that is contingent on the circumstances in which the spell is cast and its application in a particular case.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

It's because the effect of the spell secures a short rest. Phantom Steed might allow you to escape the wolves, but it won't stop you from being shot, ambushed, struck by lightning, etc. All of which would prevent you completing a short rest.

D&D 5E Does Rope Trick Heal?

Does Rope Trick Heal?

Yes

No

Al'Kelhar

Adventurer

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog

Yunru

Banned

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog

Al'Kelhar

Adventurer

Yunru

Banned

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