Changeover Poll

[Jack99]

1k samples for a 70k group is actually quite much and enough for a quite accurate statistic.

Only if the 1k who vote are representative of the boards as a whole. See my example from WoW. It ain't always true.

And I agree with Korgoth.
If this poll would be more positive for 4E, then a lot less people would argue that the poll not representative.

It's possible, I can't deny that. Or perhaps it would just be some other people arguing.

Happy New Year!

 

[BryonD]

I don't think it is too much of a leap to guess that folks here are probably also more invested (financially and emotionally) in 3ed than the average gamer.

Key word: "financially"

When 3E came out, people with stacks of 2E books went and bought stacks of 3E books. The fraction of the fan base with stacks of 3E books that has started buying stacks of 4E books is decidedly smaller. I believe WotC wanted to target a wider range of fans. But if they have succeeded in trading one fan who bought a book a month for 4 fans who each buy less than a book a year, then they have made a bad deal. But hey, at least those "fans" are not so financially invested that they won't switch straight to buying nothing for 5E.

WotC has most certainly lowered the bar and made D&D more accessible to casual gamers. But it has also made a game that is a lot less appealing to people who think of themselves as gamers as an overall group. And please don't bother explaining to me how you are completely the opposite of this claim. I'm certain there are quite a large number of you reading this. Unless you intend to buy a few thousand of the next 4E supplement, it doesn't change the point.

I also struggle with the idea that it seems that "emotionally invested" gamers prefer 3E and yet the numbers for 4E are low (in part) because we are still waiting for all these less emotionally invested, certain to switch over to 4E, gamers to wrap up their 3E games six months later. My campaigns generally run a year or two. So it is certainly possible, but the idea that a meaningful number of would be 4E, non-emotionally invested gamers cranked up a new 3E campaign in the final six months of the the pre-release hype and now can't bear to leave that game and move on, is a bit hard to swallow. I mean, the whole premise is a lack of emotional investment...

I still think that a low bar recruiting strategy is a very short sighted plan for table top gaming. (and perhaps there is my flaw and maybe WotC doesn't care to have a long term plan for table top gaming. I'm not claiming they don't, I'm just throwing out the possibility)

I still believe that a sizable fraction of the non-gamers who have joined in to the easy, accessible new system will move on to the next new thing sooner rather than later. And I also think that a sizable fraction of the gamers who do like 4E will find that the simplifications will lead to a much more rapid been-there, done-that than is typical. And I know, not you. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about community.

 

[Eridanis]

Folks - we've had a constructive discussion so far. Let's not drag this down with personal attacks.

 

[Derren]

WotC has most certainly lowered the bar and made D&D more accessible to casual gamers. But it has also made a game that is a lot less appealing to people who think of themselves as gamers as an overall group. And please don't bother explaining to me how you are completely the opposite of this claim. I'm certain there are quite a large number of you reading this. Unless you intend to buy a few thousand of the next 4E supplement, it doesn't change the point.

Its very similar to the video game industry, especially the Wii.
Nintendo made console gaming more accessible and many people who did never game before bought a Wii. But the gamers are dissatisfied because nearly all games for the Wii are simple sports and party games for the casual group.

The casuals on the other hand loose intrest in the Wii rather fast. And while the Wii console has sold very well, the game sales are rather small, especially when compared to the number of consoles sold.

That is very similar to 4E in my opinion with Wii console = 4E Core books and Wii games = splats.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

That is very similar to 4E in my opinion with Wii console = 4E Core books and Wii games = splats.

Now I'm picturing Jack or Wisdom Penalty doing this when they opened 4e:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41c6eXWZwM]YouTube - Wii Scream - Just the Scream[/ame]

 

[Tetsubo]

This "4E Avenger" term cracks me up, because 7-8 years ago all the new 3E fans did the exact same damn thing here and elsewhere on the net- annoying the hell out of the 2E fans/holdouts, telling them the new game was a bazillion times better, and older editions suck, and the older editions drove us away from D&D, blah blah.

Now they are the one's crying about the loss of "their game"-What goes around comes around I reckon.

Except that the 3E fans were quite correct about 2E and the 4E fans are totally wrong about 3.5. 3.5 is the last edition of D&D.

 

[Jack99]

Now I'm picturing Jack or Wisdom Penalty doing this when they opened 4e:

YouTube - Wii Scream - Just the Scream

Lol...

Rather close

 

[Ydars]

I have a dream; that in this great year we shall all be judged by the content of our characters, and not by the "colour" of our edition!

I will see you in the promised land.

 

[garyh]

Except that the 3E fans were quite correct about 2E and the 4E fans are totally wrong about 3.5. 3.5 is the last edition of D&D.

I've seen you say that before. The thing is, that's wrong. It says "D&D" right on my 4e books, and you can still have a party of a fighter, cleric, rogue, and wizard killing things and taking their stuff.

You don't have to like 4e, but claiming it isn't D&D is insulting.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

You don't have to like 4e, but claiming it isn't D&D is insulting.

In fact, I'd say it's blatant trolling.