Slaughterhouse - Sandbox Equivalent for 4E

[Charwoman Gene]

Schrödinger, Chekhov, Samus | The Angry DM: D&D 4E Advice with Attitude

 

[I'm A Banana]

The ideas about "metroidvania" dungeon design are solid. If you connect that with my idea about how powers the party has access to can dramatically change the challenges they access, you've got a nice little "adventure game" set-up.

The lair stat block might be decent for sandboxy play over the course of a campaign, but my games generally don't have the play length for that. I do like how he keys repopulating to when the party takes an extended rest, but that futzes with the pacing of the game, making more conservative parties (who rest more often) higher level faster than they would be otherwise, which could, in an extreme situation, basically mean that the party would sit there grinding on an infinite orc spawn as if this were a videogame. Which isn't an ideal thing for most games, I think.

Maybe his tables are different, but mine generally have a pretty strict time limit, not only in terms of the time in each session, but also in the number of sessions devoted to a given adventure/campaign. This works for a theoretically infinite-time-span campaign, but it's not so great when you've got specific things you want the party to accomplish. For that, you might need some more aggressive pacing ideas.

But it's some great thought on the idea. Four stars.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Ok, how do i get it?

It says we should try it, but where is the downloadlink?

 

[thatdarnedbob]

Ok, how do i get it?

It says we should try it, but where is the downloadlink?

At the bottom of the post, he has a fairly innocuous line that reads "Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6". Click those to get to the detailed parts of his post. Yeah I was flummoxed too for a bit.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

He needs a next button.

I'm absolutely fascinated by the system, because it feels a little bit like a 4e philosophy equivalent random encounter tables, which were an awesome worldbuilding tool.

 

[the Jester]

Very impressive! I may have to randomly generate a map and try building some factions etc. I like his system a lot; it seems like you could generate a random dungeon map of several hundred rooms, set up a few factions, detail about 10 specific areas that were "special" and be ready to go.

Awesome.

 

[LostSoul]

Hmm, that's much easier than my method of statting up exactly who and what is in each lair - designing those tables takes forever.

 

[TheAngryDM]

Thank you Charwoman Gene for pointing folks my way and thanks everyone for checking it out. I am sorry about the multi-page issue. I just starting using it and the defaults are a little 'subtle.' I'm new to this webmaster thing, but it should be much friendlier and more obvious now.

The lair stat block might be decent for sandboxy play over the course of a campaign, but my games generally don't have the play length for that. I do like how he keys repopulating to when the party takes an extended rest, but that futzes with the pacing of the game, making more conservative parties (who rest more often) higher level faster than they would be otherwise, which could, in an extreme situation, basically mean that the party would sit there grinding on an infinite orc spawn as if this were a videogame. Which isn't an ideal thing for most games, I think.

That is an extreme example and one, I hope, that most DMs would avoid. Like everything else in D&D, a person with a brain (the DM) must ultimately act as arbitrator and reality checker. Besides, I have a hard time picturing a group of players actually willing to do the infinite grind for XP thing. The Slaughterhouse Method is a shortcut for the DM to use when populating and repopulating the dungeon, nothing more or less. The DM must still apply some discretion.

Maybe his tables are different, but mine generally have a pretty strict time limit, not only in terms of the time in each session, but also in the number of sessions devoted to a given adventure/campaign. This works for a theoretically infinite-time-span campaign, but it's not so great when you've got specific things you want the party to accomplish. For that, you might need some more aggressive pacing ideas.

I agree with this. The Slaughterhouse System is not for everyone or every table. It is a tool for building and running multi-experience-level site-based sandboxes. It allows the DM to present a site for the players to explore at their own pace and of their own volition. I built it specifically because I am trying to capture the feel of an old-school super dungeon (like Undermountain or the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk), but without the feeling of a static environment in which the monsters and other obstacles are not simply standing around, tapping their feet, and waiting for adventurers to come along. Old school dungeon with new school dynamics.

Even so, I think it is versatile enough to be useful at a number of tables. I hinted at some of the alternatives. But one more that occurs to me is a DM using it (mainly with skill challenges, narrative, and only occasional combat) to define the PCs home base city. In that case, their adventures for different factions would change the landscape of the home base.

 

[Korgoth]

So, just to get a complete handle on the idea here: Say I'm going with a dungeon. I draw up the different zones, etc. So now I'm populating the Orcville zone. Orcville has an Orc Stronghold. So I write up the stat block for the Stronghold (as well as ancillary statblocks for when the Flumph faction occupies it after the orcs are all killed by PCs, etc.). So...

now the idea is that I also map out the Orc Stronghold and populate/key it? And it is from that key ("Room 8: 6 Orc Cat Jugglers lair here, practicing their craft to not anger their perfectionistic chieftain") that I figure the XP totals when the PCs start slaughtering their way through the Fortress?

If that is as I imagine it, then I take it that after the PCs kill the Orc Cat Jugglers on their first foray (wherein they deplete but not conquer the Fortress), I am to repopulate the rooms with differing occupants as appropriate to the context of the world?

Just trying to make sure I grok the idea exactly.

 

[I'm A Banana]

That is an extreme example and one, I hope, that most DMs would avoid. Like everything else in D&D, a person with a brain (the DM) must ultimately act as arbitrator and reality checker. Besides, I have a hard time picturing a group of players actually willing to do the infinite grind for XP thing. The Slaughterhouse Method is a shortcut for the DM to use when populating and repopulating the dungeon, nothing more or less. The DM must still apply some discretion.

Oh, sure, it's unrealistic, but it points to a more realistic problem. That is, the party doesn't have a major incentive to do much, or to explore everything. The DM could do a lot of work that goes unused. That's often a sandboxy problem, though, so I'm guessing people who are OK with the sandbox style already are totally fine with doing stuff that the party never ever sees.

Even so, I think it is versatile enough to be useful at a number of tables. I hinted at some of the alternatives. But one more that occurs to me is a DM using it (mainly with skill challenges, narrative, and only occasional combat) to define the PCs home base city. In that case, their adventures for different factions would change the landscape of the home base.

It's got some solid potential, and a lot of versatility, it just needs a bit more fire under the seat for the consequences of resting. "Monsters come back" works for a long-term sandbox game, but for a short-burst concentrated experience, it's just getting in the way, since there's a goal at the end of all that noise.