VTT beta feedback?

[Nikosandros]

I can smell sweet, sweet potential.

Indeed. I don't like very much the VTT at the moment, but it has the potential to become an extremely remarkable tool, if properly developed.

 

[mattcolville]

It sorta blows my mind that they would launch a public beta for a VTT that doesn't understand the rules or data for 4E. That doesn't feel like a Beta to me. Feels pre-Alpha. Certainly I have a hard time imagining anyone inside WotC considering this feature complete, a requirement for beta testing.

As far as I can tell--and I'd love to be wrong about this--you enter a PC entirely by hand. It has no idea what Sly Flourish does or how it works.

And it has no data validation. I could give a Fighter Magic Missile.

I have some high level concerns. I don't think this is a Virtual Tabletop the way Fantasy Grounds is, where I can share handouts and notes and illustrations. It seems like a Virtual Battle-mat, which certainly could be useful and valuable, but not as valuable as that same functionality inside a Virtual Tabletop.

But these high level concerns are overshadowed by my low-level concerns regarding data, rules, and validation.

 

[Zaran]

It sorta blows my mind that they would launch a public beta for a VTT that doesn't understand the rules or data for 4E. That doesn't feel like a Beta to me. Feels pre-Alpha. Certainly I have a hard time imagining anyone inside WotC considering this feature complete, a requirement for beta testing.

As far as I can tell--and I'd love to be wrong about this--you enter a PC entirely by hand. It has no idea what Sly Flourish does or how it works.

And it has no data validation. I could give a Fighter Magic Missile.

I have some high level concerns. I don't think this is a Virtual Tabletop the way Fantasy Grounds is, where I can share handouts and notes and illustrations. It seems like a Virtual Battle-mat, which certainly could be useful and valuable, but not as valuable as that same functionality inside a Virtual Tabletop.

But these high level concerns are overshadowed by my low-level concerns regarding data, rules, and validation.

No you can import the pc wholesale and it will have what the cb has for attack mods and damage. So if the cb is right the vt will be right. After you import you can then make further adjustments by editing the power.

 

[Dannager]

It sorta blows my mind that they would launch a public beta for a VTT that doesn't understand the rules or data for 4E. That doesn't feel like a Beta to me. Feels pre-Alpha. Certainly I have a hard time imagining anyone inside WotC considering this feature complete, a requirement for beta testing.

It would probably be more accurate for them to explain that they are in internal beta and external alpha, as they are gradually enabling more and more (presumably already existing) features for their external testers.

Really, though, I think there's kind of a colloquial understanding of the meaning of "beta test" that exists separately from the standardized terminology of the software industry. To most people familiar with the term, it simply means any kind of testing the involves some portion of the public prior to retail (or final) release.

 

[Goonalan]

We get mad at WOTC when they don't tell us what they're doing- or what stage things are at.

Then when they tell us what they're doing- and lets us play/help with the development of the tools like the VTT (something we've been wanting for ages) we complain that the tools are alpha/beta etc.

What does it matter alpha/beta- let's keep trialing it until it gets to the point its a goer...

And the more we help, with constructive criticism et al, then hopefully the greater transparency, and desire for us to get involved.

I hope that every concern that's raised here is also sent to the right guys at WOTC, otherwise why not just open a window and shout in to the street.

Sorry...

Goonalan

 

[Keefe the Thief]

It sorta blows my mind that they would launch a public beta for a VTT that doesn't understand the rules or data for 4E. That doesn't feel like a Beta to me. Feels pre-Alpha. Certainly I have a hard time imagining anyone inside WotC considering this feature complete, a requirement for beta testing.

As far as I can tell--and I'd love to be wrong about this--you enter a PC entirely by hand. It has no idea what Sly Flourish does or how it works.

And it has no data validation. I could give a Fighter Magic Missile.

I have some high level concerns. I don't think this is a Virtual Tabletop the way Fantasy Grounds is, where I can share handouts and notes and illustrations. It seems like a Virtual Battle-mat, which certainly could be useful and valuable, but not as valuable as that same functionality inside a Virtual Tabletop.

But these high level concerns are overshadowed by my low-level concerns regarding data, rules, and validation.

As anyone who ever tried to create a consistent macro/data entry system for maptool can attest, automating data import and macro management is the toughest thing to do in a VTT. Anything else has to come first. The amount of work to integrate a complex ruleset like 4e over three tools like CB/AT/VTT just boggles my mind, and my hat's off to all those valiant people that constantly try to do it for Maptool.

The VTT is functional, because lots of people already run games on it. The killer app, cross-importing, is currently implemented. We have an open beta where anybody can get in AND can talk about the testing at your leisure. That's the best beta you can get, seriously.

I'm not saying that the VTT doesn't have a long way to go - it has. But this is not eTools level stuff we're talking about here.

 

[mudbunny]

WotC has been pretty consistent in saying that there would be no rules adjudication in the VT. It has always been intended that rules adjudication would be left up to the DM, and not enforced by the program.

 

[samursus]

No you can import the pc wholesale and it will have what the cb has for attack mods and damage. So if the cb is right the vt will be right. After you import you can then make further adjustments by editing the power.

You can import the PC, minus Feats, Magic Items, Equipment and Traits/Abilities. And yes, you can edit afterwards, but those edits only last as long as the specific table does. You can no longer load the saved VTT-formatted characters onto the game-tables (we are not totally sure why this feature was taken away).

 

[mattcolville]

WotC has been pretty consistent in saying that there would be no rules adjudication in the VT. It has always been intended that rules adjudication would be left up to the DM, and not enforced by the program.

It's not clear what this means. Are you saying the VTT won't ever know what an attack roll is? Determine hit or miss? What a saving throw is? That's frightening.

That's great news for the Fantasy Grounds folks. One of the things I really like about that software, in spite of all the problems I have with it, is how much it speeds up combat because of what it *does* know, and it doesn't know a whole lot!

 

[Zaran]

You can import the PC, minus Feats, Magic Items, Equipment and Traits/Abilities. And yes, you can edit afterwards, but those edits only last as long as the specific table does. You can no longer load the saved VTT-formatted characters onto the game-tables (we are not totally sure why this feature was taken away).

I'm sure we will be able to import more as they enable it. I suspect you can't save them for the same reason they moved the cb online. So one has to have an account to utilize the builder.