Reforms so you don't need healing surges

[Jacob Marley]

Let's see, ways to handle "healing" without resorting to Healing Surges or Wands of Cure Light Wounds...

Second Wind
Damage Reduction
Heal skill
Healing Kits
Long-term Care
Herbal Healing
Spiritual Healing
Medicine
Temporary Hit Points
Lay On Hands Ability
Healing Crystals
Healing Prayers

You can split these abilities up between races and classes so that each character has their own unique/flavorful method of healing.

Perhaps, a barbarian could have a "rage" power that grants X temporary hit points at the start of combat. Meaning, he "heals" by not actually taking physical damage to begin with. Whereas a ranger may have access to certain herbal remedies and his natural heal skill. A psion would have access to special crystals. A warforged character may "heal" via their damage reduction; that is, they just are too hard to damage. Etc. Maybe every character has a second wind ability?

I trust the designers can work out "the math" so that each method is balanced well with the others.

We can do so much better than Healing Surges and Potions/Wands of Cure Light Wounds (the latter of which I would still like to see in some form; maybe not as cheap as it was in 3rd Edition).

 

[TwinBahamut]

I can certainly agree with this. Any ideas? 'Cause I got none.

Well, some iteration of a Wound Point or Life Point system can work for this, though in their own way those don't really work any different than hit points, so it becomes hard for them to reflect actual injury in a better way than hit points do.

I suppose my preferred method would be for characters to suffer "injuries" upon being reduced to zero hit points (or taking damage while at 0 HP?), with these injuries functioning possibly similarly to things like diseases or poisons in that they last for long periods of time, inhibit the character in some way, and can grow or lessen in severity. Accumulating too many injuries, or maybe aggravating an injury too far, would be lethal for a character. Not perfect, and probably too mechanically inelegant, but could possibly be refined.

One person in this thread mentioned that such a system would lead to problems because spells like Heal and Regeneration are too high level, but I don't think that is really a problem. If such injuries are integrated into normal play, then it would be more appropriate for spells like Cure Light Wounds to address them. Things like healing potions, clerical healing magic, or healing rituals would be saved for severe injuries, while hit point damage can be treated through healing surges, second winds, and a warlord's or bard's inspirational words.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Second Wind
Damage Reduction
Heal skill
Healing Kits
Long-term Care
Herbal Healing
Spiritual Healing
Medicine
Temporary Hit Points
Lay On Hands Ability
Healing Crystals
Healing Prayers

As someone studying integrative medicine, including traditional healing techniques, spiritual healing, and herbalism, I would like to applaud this list. There is a lot of very interesting untapped material on actual healing in real cultures, and tapping into it would really enhance the flavor of the game.

And, you don't have to worry about whether any of these things are actually effective or not. All's fair in D&D.

 

[MooMan68]

In my opinion this is the biggest problem with the core of D&D design. And it's a thorny problem, at least in the sense that *I* have not been able to come up with a solution I think is completely satisfactory.

The 4e Healing Surge, Yell you Healthy system was one of the two things that just about killed my gaming group. We gave 4e a good chance, but after only 6 sessions or so we were all so soured on it that we stopped playing completely. We have only started again by playing a completely different system and genre (modern supernatural).

Interestingly, this includes a "hero point" system that allows you to spend them to recover HP - and for whatever reason this hasn't been a problem. Weird where people's boundaries are. It's probably because it happens rarely, and in the story it's treated as an emotional breakthrough.

However - it's completely valid to point out that the 4e system is different from previous editions only by degree. Before we were able to ignore it and get past it if we didn't focus on it too much. But in 4e it got naked and started shoving it's naughty bits in our faces. We just couldn't ignore it.

I'm really hoping Monte et. al. pull off a miracle here, but I think it's too much to ask.

The closest I can get to a system that might work is close to WP/V system:
1) HP are not wounds, they are "Internal resources to avoid getting hit". People with no class levels have none.
2) Once you are at 0 hit points, you take real damage. This is treated as ability damage subtracted from CON/STR/DEX - with appropriate penalties. The first of these three to hit 0 causes you to fall unconscious. If CON goes to zero you die.
3) Poison/paralyze that affects you even if you take HP damage only must be a contact effect (and lots more creatures have contact effects...).
4) In-combat healing spells can only affect HP. Long Rituals are required to affect ability damage.
5) Critical hits have some possibility of directly causing real damage. This has to be handled carefully in terms of frequency and balance.

If something like this is used as Core, then 5e could include Warlord abilities that "yell you healthy" in a consistent manner (and the class and just be ignored by those who find it offensive).
Some sort of "healing surge" mechanic that allows you to put yourself back into the battle could still be in if it's use could be restricted at the DM's perogative.

However - this isn't perfect even for me....... for various reasons.

 

[Raith5]

I'm not married to surges, but I want HP recovery not dependent on magic or bed rest.

This is my view. Surges work for me, they are easy to use etc but if they are not there I am sure I could learn to live without it. But no ability to second wind, i dont think I could live with that.

It means you can play without healing potions, wands of CLW, clerics, warlords etc. In sum it supports a wider range of play styles.

Temp hp is another matter. In some circumstances they are more powerful that healing, simply because in 4th ed, they protect the number of surges you have, rather than use them and thus can be considered a buff.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

3) Embrace the 15 minute adventuring day in low level adventures and have guidelines on how to structure adventures around it.

Please not this. The story should dictate the mechanics not the other way around. Some story's work okay with the 15 minute adventuring day, but many do not.

 

[amerigoV]

If people don't like healing surges or other ways of healing, then we have to consider how they can game at the same table with people who like how well healing surges work keeping the game going.

I think there is a simple solution. You check a box on the character sheet indicating if you will accept a healing surge or not.

If yes, then it works as normal.

If no, a cleric's healing spell only does 1d8+level. If the Warlord comes over and slaps you on the back to get you back into the game, you TAKE 1d8+level damage.

 

[ferratus]

Please not this. The story should dictate the mechanics not the other way around. Some story's work okay with the 15 minute adventuring day, but many do not.

If anything isn't a solution that's good to know, so I encourage people to speak up.

Vitality/Wound Points system seems to be very popular on this thread. Does anybody have any objections to it? I find it fairly similar to healing surges myself, so I'm wondering if it provokes the same type of backlash. Is the explicit assumption that vitality points don't represent injuries enough to salve the sense of "realism" from non-magical restoration of points?

 

[tuxgeo]

If anything isn't a solution that's good to know, so I encourage people to speak up.

Vitality/Wound Points system seems to be very popular on this thread. Does anybody have any objections to it? I find it fairly similar to healing surges myself, so I'm wondering if it provokes the same type of backlash. Is the explicit assumption that vitality points don't represent injuries enough to salve the sense of "realism" from non-magical restoration of points?

I can't speak for others, but for myself healing surges are no problem.

I'm of the opinion that it's mostly the word "damage" that causes this dislike of Healing Surges: some people interpret "damage" to mean physical damage only, rather than reductions of confidence, luck, or morale.
If WotC would just remove the word "damage" from all combat descriptions, and replace it with something else, possibly "dismay," then much of this problem might disappear.

Here's an audacious suggestion, in two parts:
(1) Reflavor "Hit Points" as "Fight Points," so when you don't have any Fight Points left (at or below 0 FP), you're out of the fight; and,
(2) Reflavor "Damage" as "Dismay," thus: each time you take "dismay," you lose that many Fight Points; and you are then that much more "dismayed," but are not necessarily out of the fight.

If PCs were to take "dismay" instead of "damage" during a fight, then the Warlord's "shout you back into action" ability wouldn't even raise eyebrows -- IMHO.

Challenge to expert wordsmiths: What's a better word than "dismay" to replace the name of that which PCs take when they get hit in combat?
- ("Deterrence"? You lose Fight Points each time you are "deterred"?)
- ("Edge loss"? You lose Fight Points each time you "lose" some of your "edge"?)
- ("Lurgy"?) (Thank you, Luna Lovegood.)
- ("Bollix"? "Cross"? "Strain"?)

 

[MooMan68]

If anything isn't a solution that's good to know, so I encourage people to speak up.

Vitality/Wound Points system seems to be very popular on this thread. Does anybody have any objections to it? I find it fairly similar to healing surges myself, so I'm wondering if it provokes the same type of backlash. Is the explicit assumption that vitality points don't represent injuries enough to salve the sense of "realism" from non-magical restoration of points?

I proposed such a system myself, and I'll tell you why I stopped using a similar system in the past.
1) It's one more thing to keep track of in combat, which needs to be simple and fluid.
2) Core, which also needs to be simple, historically hasn't needed it. But
3) If it's used as an optional "module", it's incredibly hard to balance properly without propagating effects. All healing needs to be clarified to start. If you are incapacitated it only makes sense to have damage go directly to wound points, which increases their power too much. Coup-de-gras should go directly to wound points, as well.
4) Any monster attacks that cause effects on a hit are problematic, because unless they cause wound points they technically never touched the player.
5) There are traps and environmental effects that cause damage that isn't "avoidable". If mapped to wound points these are much too powerful, but it doesn't make sense not to.