Tiefling and half-orc should not be in the PHB

[gyor]

I didn't like it when the half-orc appeared in 3e, and I liked it even less when i saw Tiefling in 4e. These types of half races should just be stuffed in some addon book somewhere. Give me the basic races in the PHB: Human, elf, halfling, and dwarf.

The reason is that I usually don't play with half-monster races, and I am tired of hearing "but it's in the Player's Handbook..." anytime I form a group to play in my local book store.

Removing choice from other people for your minor convience isn't fair to those that do want those races in, because they don't want to wait a year or more for them. I say this as someone who doesn't play halforcs.

I'm so tire of the lets removed options crowd that wants to ruin 5e for everyone else, because other wise that crowd might be inconvienced by people that like choice and gasp, we can have someone who likes half orcs getting uppity.

This isn't an edition wars post btw, its fatigue with the options miniumalists trying to stifle choice of every body else at every turn so that they can control thier games. The rest of us have to lose out because some in thier game may want to play something other then the most basic tolkiensic characters.

From threads like lets only have fighter, wizard, rogue, and cleric classes, to lets only have elf, human, halfing, dwarf, and gnomes leave me fatigued. If this is who they listen too I predict complete failure of 5e, because those not interested in a tolkiensic game, and,thier are many of us, will not be interested.

Thankfully this doesn't appear to be the direction they appear to be going.

Sorry for the rant, I'm usually more positive and understanding, but these miniumalist thread are starting to get at me.

 

[Danzauker]

I think the next PHB should showcase a good selection of races that cover the largest range of archetypes, given space constraints of course.

Fantasy is not just Tolkien anymore. And neither is Vance (who is, BTW, almost unknown in many countries outside USA). Fantasy is also Harry Potter and Narnia. Fantasy has lots of fans in anime and videogame enthusiasts, and even Star Wars, Flash Gordon and Avatar can be in some part be called fantasy.

Given that Human, Elf and Dwarf are almost universal, would a random person be more likely to know what a Gnome is or what an Halfling is (Hobbit maybe)?

Would the big guy race be better covered by an obscure "goliath" or an instantly recognized "minotaur"? Wouldn't a Full Metal Alchemist fan be delighted by being able to play Alphonse out of the box using a Warforged? And wouldn't be Flash Gordon style bird people and furry cat people be more appealing than Drows, which are after all almost unknown except among D&D players?

Of course, between having a lot of stuff badly done and little stuff done well, and the other in optional books, I prefer the latter approach, but RPGs for what I know are already famous among the common crowd to require you to buy a lot of books in order to play, so a PHB that presents a good selection of different races would serve IMHO the game better than just 4 or 5 classic races.

In my very personal selection I'd like to see:

Human
Elf
Dwarf
Halfling and/or Gnome
Orc

All those races could have mechanics to make half-races or be customized for ezamples in Wild Elves and Wood Elves

Then some more uncommon archetypes, with maybe less customization options

Reptilians/Dragonborn
Furries/Shifters
Big Guys/Minotaurs or Ogre or Goliath or something like that
Bird people/Aarakokra or some other race
dark emo race (people seem to love that)/Tiefling or Drow

It's up to the guidelines to explain that the races presented in the PHB are just tools to build your own game, and that if you want to play A Song of Fire and Ice you can well just use only Humans and you're fine.

 

[Hassassin]

My point is: I want full race entries for a lot of races, not some half-made entries on Monster Manual, like we had on 3E.

Simple: Make full entries short enough that you can fit one for each MM race.

Do you mean the fluff or the crunch? I think whoever absolutely needs his gnome or dragonborn can live with low fluff, because they already know it. OTOH new players are likely to be OK with whatever they find in the PHB, assuming there's enough choice and the classics are there.

 

[avin]

Compromise. Make the intelligent races in the MM playable but presented with only the bare essentials, thus keeping the page count of the MM manageable. The entries could be expanded upon later, in Ecology articles and the like.

4E had more races and a lot of white space. I don't think 3-4 extra races would explode page count.

As for price? Well, there's starter books for that... I don't think RPG is an expensive hobby for newcomers.

Simple: Make full entries short enough that you can fit one for each MM race.

Do you mean the fluff or the crunch? I think whoever absolutely needs his gnome or dragonborn can live with low fluff, because they already know it. OTOH new players are likely to be OK with whatever they find in the PHB, assuming there's enough choice and the classics are there.

More fluff than crunch, but I think we are still discussing removing races from PHB because some people just want to play humans/elves/dwarves/halflings... and I still don't get why more options hurt other people's fun.

 

[Stormonu]

I agree with the "short" entries. You can fit a lot of info in one column of text about a race. If someone wants more info than that, it becomes a perfect place to create a supplementary book about the race - like the 2E Complete Race books.

For example, this is the racial description for dwarves in my own game. It only takes up a single column on a page, and I think its informative enough for most games. The mechanics take 1/3 of a column, not included.

[sblock]
Literally sculpted from stone in their parent's forges, dwarves are squat humanoids who tend to be dour, stoic and clannish. Generally living beneath the earth, they are known for their skill at creating masterful works of art. Likewise, they are known for their greed and fondness for drink.

Physical Traits
Dwarves tend to be stocky, averaging 4' 2” to 4' 6” in height and about 200-250 lbs. They tend to have stone-colored skin, ranging from an earthy sandstone color through various shades of granite gray and into coal black colors. It is not uncommon for nobility or royalty to have glossy, marbled skin in colors ranging from white, black or green and in extremely rare cases, with gold flecking. Dwarven eyes tend to steel gray, brown or black with gray or golden flecks. Some dwarves are naturally bald (a trait determined at creation) or may sport hair in earthy tones, gray or stark black colors. Dwarven hair tends to be strait, though some clans prefer curly hair. A dwarf with hair tends to wear it long and/or braided. Male dwarves tend to be bearded. Most dwarven males revere their beards and will trim and decorate them in intricate patterns.

Culture
Dwarves tend to live in defensive holds built into the sides of mountains or under hills. There, they toil to mine the earth of precious metals and craft it into beautiful works of art, some of which they are willing to part with in trade for other things they need from the other races. While holdings can vary greatly, most tend towards rigid, lawful hierarchal societies where one's skill as a craftsman determines social rank. Guilds are the most common organization in the hold, each dedicated to a particular craft. These crafts are usually dedicated to a particular form of metalworking, but can also include other crafts such as brewing, carpentry, stonemason and even soldiering. Most holds are ruled by a king/queen or lord/lady with a council of guild masters who acts as the hold's nobility. The guilds themselves are usually composed of clans of dwarves who follow a singular lineage; branching out from one's family guild is often seen as a betrayal of one's family.

[/sblock]

 

[Hassassin]

More fluff than crunch, but I think we are still discussing removing races from PHB because some people just want to play humans/elves/dwarves/halflings... and I still don't get why more options hurt other people's fun.

They shouldn't remove races for that reason, but I don't think they should have >10 races in the PHB either (seven is a nice number...). I don't want a 500+ page book and even 300 pages is in my opinion a bit much.

In any case, racial fluff is something that should be expanded in race and setting specific books, IMO.

 

[Ratinyourwalls]

I disagree. I like both in the core book. They provide a necessary core set diversion from the generics like Elves and Dwarves.

 

[Khaalis]

Personally, I'd like to see the books go back to 3E format (smaller text, wider columns, more 'encyclopedic' and less 'magazine' in layout). In that format you can pack a lot of information. Then, I wouldn't mind seeing a fairly decent number of races at perhaps a maximum of 1 page per race (including art, fluff and stat-block). Then, as noted, you could release a new version of Complete Races to increase the amount of fluff and offer new options for those races.

 

[Kynn]

Dennis McKiernan's Mithgar series.
Terry Brooks' Shanarra series - or so I've been told anyway.
Practically any books designed to tie-in to video games and RPGs, especially in the late 80s.
Practically anything written by Margaret Weis.

Except these don't fit the requirements of "the races are human, elf, dwarf, halfling and gnome."

None of them do.

 

[Ratinyourwalls]

5E core should copy Skyrim race choices.

So:

Dragonborn, Drow, High Elf, Wood Elf, Lizardmen, Humans, Half-Elves, Catfolk.