Tiefling and half-orc should not be in the PHB

[Stormonu]

5E core should copy Skyrim race choices.

So:

Dragonborn, Drow, High Elf, Wood Elf, Lizardmen, Humans, Half-Elves, Catfolk.

I strongly disagree. 5E should copy D&D race choices, not some other game's.

 

[Somebloke]

Removing choice from other people for your minor convience isn't fair to those that do want those races in, because they don't want to wait a year or more for them. I say this as someone who doesn't play halforcs.

I'm so tire of the lets removed options crowd that wants to ruin 5e for everyone else, because other wise that crowd might be inconvienced by people that like choice and gasp, we can have someone who likes half orcs getting uppity.

This isn't an edition wars post btw, its fatigue with the options miniumalists trying to stifle choice of every body else at every turn so that they can control thier games. The rest of us have to lose out because some in thier game may want to play something other then the most basic tolkiensic characters.

From threads like lets only have fighter, wizard, rogue, and cleric classes, to lets only have elf, human, halfing, dwarf, and gnomes leave me fatigued. If this is who they listen too I predict complete failure of 5e, because those not interested in a tolkiensic game, and,thier are many of us, will not be interested.

Thankfully this doesn't appear to be the direction they appear to be going.

Sorry for the rant, I'm usually more positive and understanding, but these miniumalist thread are starting to get at me.

I really agree. The core arguments put forward don't really hold any water. The idea that this could great headaches for DMs that want to ban these races ignores that DnD has always been a modular game, with DM changes/denials an accepted part of play. The idea that they will take up unecessary space strikes me as ridiculous, given the typical space needed to write up a race in the 3rd and 4th editions. And the argument that the ODnD races are alone icons of fantasy is only arguably true if one focused on a very narrow group of fantasy literature/rpgs in the 80s and then never picked up another fantasy book again. Fact is, if fantasy literature as a whole was examined, the only race appearing in the PhB would be humans- everything else would be shuffled to the MM for 'space'.

Look, I...I despise haflings, dwarves and elves. Especially elves. My goodness, do I hate the pointy-eared smug ****s. But I would never think of attempting to limit or inconvenience other fans by lobbying for their exclusion from the phb. Can't all the edition lovers enjoy the game together?

 

[hanez]

I strongly disagree. 5E should copy D&D race choices, not some other game's.

Can't give you XP or I would lol

 

[Aeolius]

The idea that they will take up unecessary space strikes me as ridiculous, given the typical space needed to write up a race in the 3rd and 4th editions. And the argument that the ODnD races are alone icons of fantasy is only arguably true if one focused on a very narrow group of fantasy literature/rpgs...

Sea elves, merfolk, and locathah in the 5e PH!! woot!!

 

[Hassassin]

The idea that they will take up unecessary space strikes me as ridiculous, given the typical space needed to write up a race in the 3rd and 4th editions.

It is not at all ridiculous to suggest that there is a practical limit. Where the sweet spot of choice & inclusiveness vs. pages that can't be used for something else lies is debatable.

 

[Minigiant]

Like I said before, the PHB should go for the "tropes" or archetypical builds of species.

Humans as the mundane, adaptable race
Elves as the fragile speedy accurate race (Speed+Offense)
Dwarves as the slow, tough, and powerful race (Offense+Defense)
Halflings as the weak but hard to hit race (Speed+Defense)
Orcs or Half Orcs as the strong but dumb race (Offense+Defense+Speed- Versatility)

plus two or three other special races
Dragonborns (Breath weapon)
Gnomes (natural spellcaster)
Half-Elves (natural multiclasser)
One of the planetouched Tiefling/Aasimar/Genasi (some sort of planar magic attack)
Eladrins (some sort of fey like ability)

 

[Sunseeker]

Sea elves, merfolk, and locathah in the 5e PH!! woot!!

I wouldn't be opposed to the presentation of a few water-based races for all those water-based campaigns out there.

Honestly I've been dying to run one and just never gotten around to it.

It is not at all ridiculous to suggest that there is a practical limit. Where the sweet spot of choice & inclusiveness vs. pages that can't be used for something else lies is debatable.

Sure, but people are suggesting 4 races maximum. I honestly think that's the FEWEST number of races to ever be presented in core since 1 or 2e.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

I will never understand the appeal of "kitchen sink" or "garbage bin" D&D which demands that a place be found for everything that's ever been released, no matter how weird, off-the-wall, or nontraditional it may be, all in the name of not curtailing the choice options of certain people.

What happened to the days when we could expect that crazy races/classes/items/High Weirdness that were specific to one nontraditional setting would be included only in the player's guide to that setting? Why is that unreasonable?

What's truly so bad about restricting the initial, core, basic version of the game only to traditional elements that have a long and firmly-established pedigree of being included in the game's core? Just those elements that originally defined the game's roots and made it great in the first place! Do you people actually not like Dungeons and Dragons?

'Cause seriously, No True Scotsman and all that...

 

[ArmoredSaint]

Few things irritate me more than spending hours and hours preparing a plot plot outline in a particular setting in which what's available has already been defined beforehand, only to set it before the players and have That One Guy throw a tantrum because he can't make his Tainted Half-Dragonborn/Half-Shifter FactotumNinjaSorcerer concept work within the parameters of the campaign.

And it's always That One Guy who does it. Every group has one--the guy who gets his jollies from playing nothing but oddball character concepts and rebelling against anything he defines as "too Normal." It's like he's going through some sort of personal identity crisis and has this driving psychological need to set himself apart and constantly remind everyone around him that he's not just another sheep in the flock like they are. He demands the spotlight, often in social situations within the story, and gets off on all the drama that surrounds NPCs being revolted by his unusual and generally monstrous PC, detracting from the fun of everyone else around the table, who probably just want to get on with the campaign's storyline and make some progress towards achieving their goal. He just wants the whole campaign to be about everybody celebrating his diversity.

Tell him "No," or "You can't do that," or "That's not available," and he flies off the handle, wanting to do it all the more now because he was told that he can't, adding the appeal of rebellion to the appeal of the Weird.

I don't get this guy at all. To him, D&D is something very different than it is to me. He hates anything and everything old and traditional; if it's not cutting-edge and totally whacked-out Strange, it can't hold his interest. What made him this way? What was his early experience with the game like? What turned him off so much on the Things That Make D&D What It Is?

 

[MoxieFu]

Which "most fantasy novels" are you talking about? Because I don't think the majority of fantasy novels out thre are anything like this.

Get a copy of the Dungeon Masters Guide, first edition.
Turn to Appendix N
Pick any novel
Enjoy

And if anybody is still looking for the "Essence" of D&D? It's here.