D&D 5E What belongs in a $50 PHB?

[keterys]

The desire to have magic items (and other stuff) not in the base book for the game suggests to me that people think players aren't also DMs. Maybe that happens, but it's definitely not the optimal situation. The best option for the game, IMO, is to have as many people running it as possible.

I am curious to see what goes into a $20 starter set, though. Hopefully enough to actually hook people on the game, rather than enough to run a 1-shot with not-really-the-rules.

 

[mattcolville]

I dunno how normal this is, but if I want something, and can afford it, I don't normally worry about how much it costs. So I can't really make an evaluation like "What should a $50 PHB have?" as opposed to a $40 or $30 or $60 book.

 

[Mistwell]

Yes. Not the full complement of course, but enough to play comfortably without needing more books. You know like many other RPGs with core books in that price range manage to do.

You already have that product available. Scourge of the Sword Coast has everything you need to play the game, and a significantly reduced price from what the PHB will be. But...you're not much interested in that product. Because it doesn't have nearly enough of the elements people want to play the game, though it has everything you need.

They're going to need multiple books to play the game, with some split between player and DM content. For D&D, the base content is just too much for one book.

 

[Jacob Marley]

Yup. If some or all of the magic items don't exist in the campaign or don't work as described then putting them in the PHB is a waste of space.

Doesn't this same reasoning also hold with races and classes? I mean, if I don't want gnome warlocks to exist or I want to make changes to how they work, then putting them into the Player's Handbook is a waste of space.

At this point, for me, it is a practicality issue. Being able to reference anything on my character sheet, including magic items, with one book is an absolute win for me.

 

[DMZ2112]

The desire to have magic items (and other stuff) not in the base book for the game suggests to me that people think players aren't also DMs. Maybe that happens, but it's definitely not the optimal situation. The best option for the game, IMO, is to have as many people running it as possible.

Players behind the screen?! Heresy!

For D&D, the base content is just too much for one book.

Rather than give the knee-jerk response, here, Mistwell, I'm going to engage you on this one:

Help me out. If the base content of D&D is too much for one book, where does Pathfinder fit into this model universe? Or would you say Pathfinder is case in point, as it does not include a bestiary appendix?

 

[Mistwell]

Doesn't this same reasoning also hold with races and classes? I mean, if I don't want gnome warlocks to exist or I want to make changes to how they work, then putting them into the Player's Handbook is a waste of space.

At this point, for me, it is a practicality issue. Being able to reference anything on my character sheet, including magic items, with one book is an absolute win for me.

Optional things belong in the DMG. Magic items are listed as optional things. Characters don't get them unless the DM specifically decides to hand them out - they're entirely in the DMs control explicitly. Races however are not listed as an optional thing. While the DM can houserule them out, that's a houserule and it's not explicitly optional. Magic items are.

 

[Mistwell]

Help me out. If the base content of D&D is too much for one book, where does Pathfinder fit into this model universe? Or would you say Pathfinder is case in point, as it does not include a bestiary appendix?

I would say Pathfinder is a case in point, because it does not include a bestiary. And not just "a bestiary appendix", but the whole panoply of core monsters. There is a certain level of monster content expected for this game, and it's more than just a smattering to hold you over for a few sessions in an appendix. The sheer quantity involved requires a monster manual for D&D (or called something different but serving the same function for Pathfinder).

 

[Wulfgar76]

And you see that as excuse for price gouging?

And how much should large-format, full color gloss, 300+ page hardcover books full of commissioned art go for in your world?


Also, I forgot that only WotC 'price gouges', the $50 rulebooks of Pathfinder and 13th Age get a free pass.

 

[Wulfgar76]

I am curious to see what goes into a $20 starter set, though.

I'm not a printer, but I work with printers, and I can tell you that $20 does not get you much in 2014.
Whatever it is, it will be softcover or booklet style, and not contain a lot of art or flair.

 

[Mistwell]

If you don't like the price, that does not make it price gouging. That's a really poor use of that phrase.

"Definition: Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities at a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. This rapid increase in prices occurs after a demand or supply shock: examples include price increases after hurricanes or other natural disasters."

Look, if you don't like the price, just don't buy the product. There is plenty of other stuff out there in the marketplace for you to buy. There's even free stuff. Nobody is forcing you to buy this game, and it's not the equivalent to a natural disaster forcing you to pay more than the fair value due to desperate need and lack of other choices. This is normal marketplace capitalism. They set a price, and you choose to buy it or not, and the market essentially sets the value based on supply and demand.