D&D 5E What belongs in a $50 PHB?

[Mistwell]

I think dragons have spells again?

In the current playtest bestiary, they do not. There's a rumor that will change for the final game, but it's just a rumor.

 

[Wulfgar76]

I think dragons have spells again?

No, they don't.
They are opting not to waste space in the MM like that again.

 

[DMZ2112]

No, they don't.
They are opting not to waste space in the MM like that again.

How is a spell list a waste of space compared to detailed power descriptions? A spell list provides greater utility in a smaller space.

I mean, there are problems with giving monsters spells, like having to cross-reference the PHB (something I always had trouble with, particularly when running unscripted), but the wasting of space doesn't feel like one of them.

 

[Wulfgar76]

How is a spell list a waste of space compared to detailed power descriptions? A spell list provides greater utility in a smaller space.

I mean, there are problems with giving monsters spells, like having to cross-reference the PHB (something I always had trouble with, particularly when running unscripted), but the wasting of space doesn't feel like one of them.

You just said it - having to cross reference the PHB is annoying
Most of the time the spells seem haphazardly selected and useless in a fight.
Also, who said Dragons cast spells like wizards?

But this is a derail, we shouldn't discuss this here.

 

[TwoSix]

In the current playtest bestiary, they do not. There's a rumor that will change for the final game, but it's just a rumor.

Ah, guess that can't cheer Derren up about 5E, then. Oh well.

 

[DMZ2112]

You just said it - having to cross reference the PHB is annoying.

Okay, so you mean it's a waste of space in the sense that the content is of no value.

Most of the time the spells seem haphazardly selected and useless in a fight.

I'm of two minds on this. I think dragons ought to have a bunch of utility powers, but I'm also fine with assuming a dragon has any utility power it needs. But then, I'm a big dragon fanboy.

Also, who said Dragons cast spells like wizards?

They never have. Their spell lists per age category have been... familiar... in past editions, but dragons have never been beholden to the need for any components, be they verbal, somatic, or material. To me, it always seemed like a pretty elegant way to give dragons an exhaustive list of spell-like abilities.

But this is a derail, we shouldn't discuss this here.

I dunno, it doesn't really seem worth it to start a separate "What Belongs in a $50 MM?" thread.

 

[Wulfgar76]

Okay, so you mean it's a waste of space in the sense that the content is of no value.

Yes - if you want to give dragons spells, that's easy enough. Coming up with unique powers like 4e did - thats tougher to do on your own.
I really like the unique powers each dragon had in addition to their breath weapon. 4e had the best dragons.

They never have. Their spell lists per age category have been... familiar... in past editions, but dragons have never been beholden to the need for any components, be they verbal, somatic, or material. To me, it always seemed like a pretty elegant way to give dragons an exhaustive list of spell-like abilities.

I like this approach better. And I'd like it even more if all dragon spell-like abilities were 'swift actions'. Dragons have been too weak for too long.

 

[DMZ2112]

Dragons have been too weak for too long.

Well, I feel like I should argue, but I can't.

...Dragons are awesome.

 

[Derren]

Well, I feel like I should argue, but I can't.

...Dragons are awesome.

Problem is that without spells dragons have hardly much ability to affect the world except for the BBEG approach of sitting in a place and attacking anyone who comes close. It also makes them more like sitting ducks for well prepared adventurers if you run combat as war.

 

[Wulfgar76]

Problem is that without spells dragons have hardly much ability to affect the world except for the BBEG approach of sitting in a place and attacking anyone who comes close.

I don't know, being the most powerful, fearsome and intelligent being around should give you the ability to affect the world. A random list of wizard spells x/day doesn't do that.

It also makes them more like sitting ducks for well prepared adventurers if you run combat as war.

This more an issue of 'economy of actions' rather than the lack of spells. Dragons that can't do lots of stuff on their turn (and not on their turn ) are going to get slaughtered.