D&D 5E What's the rush? Has the "here and now" been replaced by the "next level" attitude?

[herrozerro]

All you have to do is remember that word guideline.

If you had your players come across a wrecked wagon on their quest to defeat the goblins and they used their skills to repair it, would you count that against their WBL?

Unless the DM is rolling for random events (which is entirely possible), that wagon didn't come from nowhere. the DM put it there, which means that at some level of prep the DM should have accounted for that possibility.

 

[tomBitonti]

A wagon doesn't seem to be the best example, since its value is pretty low and is easy to fit into the WBL guidelines.

Change that to a wrecked airship, valued anywhere between 10K and 100K gp, and you have a whole different matter. Or wrecked ship; the example plays out about the same.

Guidelines would suggest that the players could repair the airship, but doing so should be an adventure, and the players should not complete the job before they reached a wealth appropriate level. (A good GM would hide the link; a bad one would push it into the player's faces.)

One fine response to all of this is to ignore the WBL guidelines. They are guidelines after all. But, that lends itself to the point: Whether a rules set pushes players to focus on leveling.

Thx!

TomB

 

[tomBitonti]

Another answer is to make the ship a plot device: The players own it, but in such a constrained way that it cannot be considered a part of the player wealth. In any case, for a party of less than 10'th level (say), the players lives will be strongly tied to managing the ship: Fending off pirates or sea monsters. Obtaining supplies and trade goods. Finding a crew.

Thx!

TomB

 

[Derren]

And for gosh sake at least have the courtesy to read the thread before responding. How many times do I have to say that playing through the "apprentice" levels is fine?

Seems like you already forgot your "40 minutes of fun" and other comments where you declare large swaths of the game unfun and demand that the system conforms to your idea of fun that only high level characters are really fun and that leveling must be fast so that not much time is spend on "apprentice level" (which apparently is everything weaker than a superhero).

So maybe instead disregarding low level as "apprentice levels" and demanding that they are breezed past with fast leveling rules you might want to accept that they can be fun too when played out, especially as all your concepts you presented can be realized there too as soon as you divorce yourself from the idea that all noteworthy people are automatically high level "just cause".

But your demands also fit the thread title that people rush past levels, although your specific case has not been directly discussed yet meaning that some people believe that only mid-high level are worthwhile levels to play at and thus want to reach them as fast as possible.
If all people in the group feel that way, why not start at higher level? That way no system modification is needed and also the players are not constantly anxious to get to the level they want and instead can enjoy the game more.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Just wanted to post my "Pirate Overlord" using Pathfinder.

Aeral Flynn Chaotic Neutral Human Fighter 2 / Ranger 1 / Gunslinger 1

Str: 13
Dex: 18
Con: 10
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 12

HP: 40
AC: 18 (Chain Shirt + Dex)
Fort: + 7 Ref: + 8 Will: + 1

Feats: Extra Grit, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Finesse (Rapier), Rapid Reload.

Skills: Climb: + 7 , Intimidate: + 7 , Knowledge Geography: + 8 , Perception: + 7 , Profession Sailor: + 7 , Survival: + 7 , Swim: + 7 , Bluff: + 7 , Sleight of Hand: + 10. (+2 to Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival when dealing with humans).

Weapons: Pistol: + 9 1d8 + 1 (With in 30 ft) (+2 to hit and damage vs Humans)
Rapier: + 8 1d6 + 1 (+2 to hit and damage vs Humans)

Abilities: Grit, Gunsmithing, Deeds, Favored Enemy (Humans), Bravery + 1.

Haven't spent my gold yet.

Just a little something I threw together.

 

[herrozerro]

Just wanted to post my "Pirate Overlord" using Pathfinder.

Aeral Flynn Chaotic Neutral Human Fighter 2 / Ranger 1 / Gunslinger 1

Str: 13
Dex: 18
Con: 10
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 12

HP: 40
AC: 18 (Chain Shirt + Dex)
Fort: + 7 Ref: + 8 Will: + 1

Feats: Extra Grit, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Finesse (Rapier), Rapid Reload.

Skills: Climb: + 7 , Intimidate: + 7 , Knowledge Geography: + 8 , Perception: + 7 , Profession Sailor: + 7 , Survival: + 7 , Swim: + 7 , Bluff: + 7 , Sleight of Hand: + 10. (+2 to Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival when dealing with humans).

Weapons: Pistol: + 9 1d8 + 1 (With in 30 ft) (+2 to hit and damage vs Humans)
Rapier: + 8 1d6 + 1 (+2 to hit and damage vs Humans)

Abilities: Grit, Gunsmithing, Deeds, Favored Enemy (Humans), Bravery + 1.

Haven't spent my gold yet.

Just a little something I threw together.

What makes him an overlord? I see no minions or ship.

Unless you are going the first pirate's movie jack. The worst pirate you've ever heard of.

 

[billd91]

Two question: Are the wealth-by-level guidelines being followed? And, is there a new rules sub-system to measure the player power, as described?

The Pirate Adventure Path has a sub-system specific to the story which tracks player power. That's not in the core rules, but added. That's fine to use, but its presence shows how the core rules are not sufficient.

About the wealth guidelines: Lots of folks will ignore those. If they are followed, a party of 4 can affort a sailing ship maybe at 3'rd level, and a warship somewhere between 4'th and 5'th.

If you're going to have a pirate-themed campaign (in which the PCs could end up in control of a ship), then you're pretty obviously going to ignore wealth by level guidelines for some things, particularly things like bulk cargo that will make up a lot of the plunder and the ship. But then, lots of campaigns do this with elements that are central to the campaign. How much sense would it make to apply WBL limits to PCs when the campaign is based on them defending a castle or other outpost? Presuming them to be in leadership positions (as PCs, they're the protagonists), that puts a lot of the castle's resources at their command. But how much castle can their WBL afford? Not very much. So the campaign doesn't figure the castle into the WBL calculations.

Honestly, if the core rules are limiting you from playing the campaign you want to play, then you're making poor use of the rules.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

If you're going to have a pirate-themed campaign (in which the PCs could end up in control of a ship), then you're pretty obviously going to ignore wealth by level guidelines for some things, particularly things like bulk cargo that will make up a lot of the plunder and the ship. But then, lots of campaigns do this with elements that are central to the campaign. How much sense would it make to apply WBL limits to PCs when the campaign is based on them defending a castle or other outpost? Presuming them to be in leadership positions (as PCs, they're the protagonists), that puts a lot of the castle's resources at their command. But how much castle can their WBL afford? Not very much. So the campaign doesn't the castle into the WBL calculations.

Honestly, if the core rules are limiting you from playing the campaign you want to play, then you're making poor use of the rules.

Must spread XP blah blah blah.........

 

[Mallus]

What makes him an overlord? I see no minions or ship.

Unless you are going the first pirate's movie jack. The worst pirate you've ever heard of.

Heh... in your average Pathfinder campaign, the only thing that pirate can be "overlord" of is their own domain. In the Seinfeld sense!

 

[billd91]

Heh... in your average Pathfinder campaign, the only thing that pirate can be "overlord" of is their own domain. In the Seinfeld sense!

So... are you saying that in the average PF campaign, the only ambition worth having is controlling whether or not you ....?

Mod note: Guys! Grandma Rule! ~Umbran