D&D 5E What's the rush? Has the "here and now" been replaced by the "next level" attitude?

[Mallus]

So... are you saying that in the average PF campaign, the only ambition worth having is controlling whether or not you ...?

Not exactly, but close!

Mod Note: Guys! Grandma rule! ~Umbran

 

[Hussar]

If you're going to have a pirate-themed campaign (in which the PCs could end up in control of a ship), then you're pretty obviously going to ignore wealth by level guidelines for some things, particularly things like bulk cargo that will make up a lot of the plunder and the ship. But then, lots of campaigns do this with elements that are central to the campaign. How much sense would it make to apply WBL limits to PCs when the campaign is based on them defending a castle or other outpost? Presuming them to be in leadership positions (as PCs, they're the protagonists), that puts a lot of the castle's resources at their command. But how much castle can their WBL afford? Not very much. So the campaign doesn't figure the castle into the WBL calculations.

Honestly, if the core rules are limiting you from playing the campaign you want to play, then you're making poor use of the rules.

Now this I totally agree with.

I remember the first naval based campaign I ran in 3e. I gave the party their ship and the first thing the players said to me was, "Screw this, let's sell the ship and use the money to buy magical items that are available in the large city (Mithril - it was a Scarred Lands campaign) that we know can be bought.

I was taken completely unawares on this one. Never occurred to me that they'd pretty much completely reject the campaign that I had built in order to take advantage of the rules. There was some serious scrambling on my part to save that campaign, which, in hindsight, was a total mistake. Very much the wrong campaign for that group of players. Great learning experience though.

Trick is to get the players on board before giving them that castle or rather expensive ship.

 

[Hussar]

Seems like you already forgot your "40 minutes of fun" and other comments where you declare large swaths of the game unfun and demand that the system conforms to your idea of fun that only high level characters are really fun and that leveling must be fast so that not much time is spend on "apprentice level" (which apparently is everything weaker than a superhero).

So maybe instead disregarding low level as "apprentice levels" and demanding that they are breezed past with fast leveling rules you might want to accept that they can be fun too when played out, especially as all your concepts you presented can be realized there too as soon as you divorce yourself from the idea that all noteworthy people are automatically high level "just cause".

But your demands also fit the thread title that people rush past levels, although your specific case has not been directly discussed yet meaning that some people believe that only mid-high level are worthwhile levels to play at and thus want to reach them as fast as possible.
If all people in the group feel that way, why not start at higher level? That way no system modification is needed and also the players are not constantly anxious to get to the level they want and instead can enjoy the game more.

Again, you do realise that I am simply talking about my own personal preferences right? That I am in no way trying to claim that my preferences should be shared by anyone else? The idea of spending that much time on a given level sounds tedious and boring to me. It really does. The idea of spending 3 hours on non-challenge elements for every hour of challenge resolution does not interest me in the slightest.

Also note that there is not "breezing past" going on here. The 4th level pirate captain would face 4th level challenges. In a world where a 7th level captain is a "Legendary" figure (to use Celebrim's example), enemy ship captains should never be more than 4th or 5th level. There aren't large numbers of higher level challenges out there because that would make little sense from a setting consistency standpoint - if there are a bunch of EL 15 challenges floating around on the ocean, why is a Level 7 captain "legendary"?

So, in that world, I would not expect to see demonic pirates such as you see in the Savage Tide AP where the pirate fleet attacking Farshore (the town the PC's take residence in) are lead by a half demon pirate who has summoned several demons to bolster his attack force. It's simply a higher wahoo level of campaign that I would expect to see.

Conversely, the 7th level pirate captain would face 7th level challenges - something a bit more wahoo and higher fantasy.

In the time it takes you to reach that 7th level Legendary Captain, my game's captain would be about 14th level. It's a different flavour of campaign, but, in both settings, we've both got a Legendary Captain. Your captain would likely be facing Dragon Turtles and the Isle of Dread (which is set for 7th ish level) and my captain might be sailing an airship to the City of Brass. Within the context of their specific settings, they are both legendary though.

Am I wrong in liking a bit more wahoo in my game? I like high fantasy. I like the options as a DM that come with a higher level campaign where the PC's have more capabilities. But, that's just my preference. The thread is asking why people like to level faster. Well, that's why. I like more wahoo. Surely that's not badwrongfun is it?

 

[Hussar]

Sounds like it might help to have a Poll. I'm just curious if I'm way off base here in thinking that 40 plus hours per level is not all that usual.

 

[tuxgeo]

Good idea for a poll. I won't be posting to it because my face-to-face experience is so meager, but I will follow it to see what the spread of results is.

 

[MoonSong]

The world must be backwards if I'm defending [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] 's point. But I am, and don't get me wrong I'm as far appart from gamism and specially powergamming. I prefer sessions when more interaction with NPCs and I'm not a fan of combat and challenges all time. I'm fine with having only 40 minutes of fighting for a two hour session. And I consider myself more of a roleplayer, however I don't like acting as if my character is very good at something when he/she isn't. And because of that I like leveling up, I like to fully realize the concept I'm looking forward to play.

This has nothing to do with wanting a superhero, not by any measure. But some concepts are complicated at low level, and sometimes you just struggle to play the character you are trying to play and end up playing something else. Once on a core only game I just wanted to level-up, but it had nothing to do with just wishing more power, or not enjoying the right now. I quite enjoyed the game, the world was compelling and NPCs were colorful and live. The only problem was my character, I wanted to play a truly peasant sorcerer, one concerned with mundane life and who wasn't affraid of getting into a fight and in fact enjoyed melee. The problem was that my character looked like a reckless moron who was always getting pummeled very quickly into a fight, I really needed those levels to stay awake a full fight and to stop struggling to hit the wide side of a barn.

Also, this all comes to recognizing variety in playstyle, there is no need to declare badwrongfun a style different from your own. It all comes to tolerance.

 

[Hussar]

Kaiilurker. You realize that 40 minutes of combat in a two hour session is exactly the pace that I'm advocating right?

But apparently that makes you just as much of a power gamer as me.

 

[Derren]

Kaiilurker. You realize that 40 minutes of combat in a two hour session is exactly the pace that I'm advocating right?

But apparently that makes you just as much of a power gamer as me.

If you in the same post define those 40 minutes as the only fun thing that happens...

 

[pemerton]

Did Conan (in the Howard stories) ever rise to captainhood?

Yes. He was renowned as Amra the Lion.

 

[pemerton]

With faster leveling there is the danger that the focus of the game shifts more towards gaining levels and assorted goodies skinner box style instead of playing out the game.

This makes no sense, for two reasons.

First, the sort of activity that gains levels is playing out the game (resolving challenges, engaging in meaningful freeform roleplay, achieving goals - I'm assuming the 4e XP rules here).

Second, what the hell with the "Skinner box" comment? People play the game for fun. Are you saying that you play D&D out of grim duty, and so don't want to take any pleasure out of play?