D&D 5E 5th Edition: How to Make My DM Cry

[Branduil]

The best way now is to roll great attributes.

Or for the DM to give a high-powered artifact to a player without accounting for it in encounter design.

 

[Phaezen]

As a DM that wouldn't make me cry. It would make me say, "This isn't the group for you. Good luck elsewhere."

But the rules!

I mean, this game is supposed to be all about the players having fun, right? A creative DM would be able to come up with appropriate challenges for any character concept!

You're not an uncreative DM, are you?

After 2 editions and 14 years of "But the rules!" I am pretty happy to say "No, not in this game". With the limited time my group has to play at the moment we are all there to have fun, and if your idea of fun is trying to break the rules as hard as possible then you are not a good fit for my group.

As a DM I would prefer to spend my creative time coming up with memorable encounters, great plots and npcs over pouring through rule books trying to find something that will challenge Punpun while not destroying the rest of the party.

On the other hand. Your pacifist Str 8, Con 10, Dex 10 fighter can also take a walk.

 

[Werebat]

Optimization is a fun exercise to figure out how to get the most XXXX from the rules as written. As an academic exercise, it is wonderful and intriguing.

However, when brought to the game table, it disrupts the balance of the game and makes it less fun (for most groups) by either creating spotlight characters, or forcing the DM to escalate to match (which results in balanced monsters that are equal to the overpowered offense of the PCs and devastating to the typical defenses of those PCs - which means higher amounts of PC deaths).

But that's where you're wrong! The DM is bound by the same rules that his players are bound by. True optimizers take the rules very seriously!

If the DM were to "escalate" by breaking the rules, he'd be cheating.

The true optimizer follows every rule -- and insists on the same from his DM! Cheating really does break the game. Optimizing to the point where the DM's encounters are all trivial is how one wins the game.

A creative DM who presents more of a challenge is more exciting than an uncreative one who doesn't, of course.

 

[Crothian]

If the DM were to "escalate" by breaking the rules, he'd be cheating.

Players cheat; DM's improvise

The game has rules that allow DMs to alter rules as they see fit. The same is not true of the player. This is what are called house rules and house rules are not cheating.

 

[Werebat]

With the limited time my group has to play at the moment we are all there to have fun, and if your idea of fun is trying to break the rules as hard as possible then you are not a good fit for my group.

I hope it's clear that I'm being facetious in this thread. It's easy to model actual viewpoints a little too accurately in this format, I understand. There really ARE people who at least seem to think the way I am presenting here, unfortunately.

But seriously, I wonder what the optimization crowd will do with 5E. I remember back when Pathfinder came out there was an air of relief due to the game being "so much better balanced", in part because some of the more commonly known optimization tricks were addressed in the core rules and some of the earlier supplements.

And then came the APG.

At this point I'm looking at 5E and thinking a lot of the same things -- it might be a nice refuge from what PF has become, as that game is starting to groan under the weight of its own cheese and is poised to receive a hunkin' heapin' helpin' more with the new class book just around the corner (at least that's my expectation).

 

[Werebat]

Players cheat; DM's improvise

You should know that true optimizers eschew semantic games like this.

And by "like this", I mean "that stand between them and table dominance."

 

[jgsugden]

...
If the DM were to "escalate" by breaking the rules, he'd be cheating...
A creative DM who presents more of a challenge is more exciting than an uncreative one who doesn't, of course.

Your choice of words (adding in unnecessary "of course") makes it seem like trolling, but I'll give you one last play thing if that is the case.

DMs do not escalate by breaking the rules. They escalate either by using more powerful creatures than would be typical of your level (which overpower the non-optimized aspects of your PC as discussed above), or they SET the rules to suit the situation. A DM cannot break the rules. They MAKE the rules. The DM alters the core rules to suit his campaign. Why does the DM have the freedom to set the rules? because the DM guide - every single one of them - says he is supposed to do so.

Regardless, if you elect to optimize, you'll be doing so against a lot of advice. I've DMed in 5 decades. I've played with a lot of people that were power gamers. The ones that learned to give it up all enjoyed the game more. The ones that didn't pretty much all got kicked out of at least one group - and many had to give up the game when nobody in their circle of friends would play with them.

The game is about having fun. Role playing. It has strategy elements, but it is NOT A STRATEGY GAME.

 

[Grazzt]

Players cheat; DM's improvise

The game has rules that allow DMs to alter rules as they see fit. The same is not true of the player. This is what are called house rules and house rules are not cheating.

This guy gets it.

 

[Shiroiken]

But that's where you're wrong! The DM is bound by the same rules that his players are bound by. True optimizers take the rules very seriously!

If the DM were to "escalate" by breaking the rules, he'd be cheating.

The true optimizer follows every rule -- and insists on the same from his DM! Cheating really does break the game. Optimizing to the point where the DM's encounters are all trivial is how one wins the game.

A creative DM who presents more of a challenge is more exciting than an uncreative one who doesn't, of course.

Note: the following is meant to be directed at said power-gamers. I use term "you," but only mean the reader if they are said power-gamers.

The rules are ONLY guidelines for the DM to use, so a DM cannot cheat. Ever. It is his game, and anything he decides to do if perfectly fair. Most DMs do not take advantage of this to abuse players, but ones that do often find themselves lacking a group fairly quickly.

You cannot "win" D&D. Thinking you can means that you don't understand D&D at all and you hurt the hobby as a whole. Most players I know do not wish to game with you, and likely this attitude would make it such that I wouldn't want to associate with you in any way even outside of the game.

As for "creativity," I can creatively come up with hundreds of expletives to describe you, but doing so would have me permanently banned from this site.

 

[Werebat]

As for "creativity," I can creatively come up with hundreds of expletives to describe you, but doing so would have me permanently banned from this site.

It's annoying, isn't it?

I remember feeling fairly irritated when I asked around on the Paizo forums about how to deal with a TWF gunslinger IMC who had started to trivialize too many encounters (obnoxious "touch attack" mechanic coupled with complex reloading schemes), and I was essentially accused of being "uncreative".

The other chestnut they love to use over there is blaming everything on the DM allowing the use of 3.5 material. Material that I'm reasonably sure they don't own (i.e. "It's not my favorite optimization-friendly CLASS that's the problem -- it's OTHER stuff I don't own or care about!")