D&D 5E Light release schedule: More harm than good?

[Jester David]

Okay so he runs 1 store. Does he have info for all stores out there that sell these products? Does he have the figures from Paizo's online store?

No. He just owns the one large store, and is noting that the D&D (5 books released in 2014) outsold the Pathfinder (300 books released in 2014) 2 to 1. That's a HUGE difference.

He may only run one store, but how many do you run? How much evidence do you have that isn't pure speculation and wishful thinking?

 

[Jester David]

I *just* pre-ordered Princes of the Apocalypse. I don't really want the adventure and am unlikely to run, but the idea of new monsters and a hard copy of the PC options is too appealing to pass up.
So the strategy might be working. By combining the two books into one, the value of PotA becomes higher. We know that the two Tiamat adventures combines is 192 pages, and that PotA is 256-320 pages. So there's 64 to 128 of non-adventure material in that book.
We also don't know for sure why the Adventurer's Handbook vanished. It's very possible the content was lacking or Sasquatch Games (being somewhat new) just wasn't able to fully deliver on time. Or WotC looked at the $50 price of Princes of the Apocalypse and decided it needed more *oomf* to sell at that MSRP.

I agree with the strategy that fewer more important books is a good plan. But I'd still like more books than we're seeing now. It sucks right now, but I'll be thankful in three years. After only three campaigns over four years, Pathfinder has become super unwieldy to me. It's a matter of balancing the short term desire for more content right now please and thank you versus the desire not to have the game spent in four years.
And as the Unearthed Arcana articles get going (and hopefully 3PP) the lack of content will be more bearable.

Two accessories a year would be nice. But if I get two 320-page adventccessories per year, that's fine too. There's a LOT of reasons why that might be a good idea.
It's likely cheaper for WotC (and me) than a 192-page and a 160-page book. The economics of publishing mean it's better to sell more copies of fewer books for fewer total sales then it is to sell fewer copies of more books for more total sales.
Because the book appeals to multiple audiences, it might be purchased by both DMs and players, increasing the audience and potential sales. A little like what they did for the Dark Sun and Neverwinter books.
Having a book be split between crunch and adventure means they have more wiggle room to make the adventures larger or smaller depending on the needs of the story. They apparently cut a LOT out of Rise of Tiamat. And if a lot of crunch is needed for a story, they can make the adventure more svelte.
It's easier for people running the adventure, since they have everything, and don't need to get a second book for the spells and races and powers needed.
And since I bought the product, the sunk cost fallacy comes up in a couple ways. If I bought the book for the crunch, I'm encouraged to run that content. And if I bought the book for the adventure, I'm encouraged to allow that crunch. And, if I'm a player that bought the book, I have this adventure I paid for encouraging me to try DMing.
The format also groups and themes the expansions content. You have the elemental content bundled with a related adventure, which you can use or ignore if running a different campaign. This makes it easier for the DM to say "PHB and whatever is related to the adventure" limiting bloat. And it potentially makes it easier to find content. You don't look for psionics in Princes of the Apocalypse and you don't look for elemental power in something like Brain Stealers from Below.

But we'll see. WotC seems to change strategies on the drop of a hat.

 

[delericho]

Okay so he runs 1 store. Does he have info for all stores out there that sell these products? Does he have the figures from Paizo's online store?

No, of course not. There is nobody who has accurate figures for how well both D&D and Pathfinder are doing across all channels - WotC have half the numbers, Paizo the other half, and they're not sharing. The best any of the rest of us can do is a partial figure - and that partial information, both from Black Diamond and from the Amazon rankings, says that D&D is selling very well indeed.

 

[Hussar]

Where is your evidence?

Seems like it's working for Paizo so there's some evidence that debunks the "wall of books" theory.

What evidence do you have that Paizo is drawing large numbers of new gamers instead of simply drawing it's base from existing ones?

 

[Shasarak]

Apparently, D&D 5e's 5 products are outselling Pathfinder's 300 by 2-to-1.

So are you saying that the Core books are selling well?

That is the whole point of re-publishing your Core books every 3 years right?

 

[Hussar]

So are you saying that the Core books are selling well?

That is the whole point of re-publishing your Core books every 3 years right?

Well, yes and no. Core books always do sell better than anything else. But, the point here is to not have to sink in millions of dollars in development every three years just to bang out a new core set, each of which runs the risk of failing.

 

[Kramodlog]

Apparently, D&D 5e's 5 products are outselling Pathfinder's 300 by 2-to-1.

In one store.

From the Paizo boards, the Paizo line is that some stores sell more D&D books and some sell more Pathfinder books. Also, the products are not leeching from each other. Apparently it was like that at first when Pathfinder came out. The piece of pie just grew larger. Then 4e crashed. From an exchange between Vic Wertz and Black Diamond Games. You need to scroll down, tell me if you can't find them: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rcgs&page=5?Best-Guess-How-many-quarters-will-DD-Next#233

 

[Kramodlog]

No. He just owns the one large store, and is noting that the D&D (5 books released in 2014) outsold the Pathfinder (300 books released in 2014) 2 to 1. That's a HUGE difference.

He may only run one store, but how many do you run? How much evidence do you have that isn't pure speculation and wishful thinking?

I think he means 300 books release since Pathfinder exist. Paizo didn't release 300 books in 2014. That would be like 25 books a month. Of course, those are all in store sells. No online sells, no PDF sells.

 

[delericho]

I think he means 300 books release since Pathfinder exist.

Yes.

In one store.

Of course. And also in one store at one point in time - next month the trend could reverse.

Also, the products are not leeching from each other. Apparently it was like that at first when Pathfinder came out. The piece of pie just grew larger. Then 4e crashed.

That's an interesting observation.

I do wonder, though, if the larger pie is a stable state, or if a crash on one side or the other is inevitable?

With a new edition of either game coming out, it's entirely reasonable to expect that a lot of gamers (exclusing Edition Wars partisans) will at least check out the new game, in addition to regular purchases of their current game of choice. But will they then continue to buy both, or is it more likely they'll end up picking one (whether their old game of choice or the new shiny) and leave the other behind?

In which case, the pie isn't really getting larger - it's just bubbling up because the filling is super-hot, and will soon return to normal.

That's just speculation, of course. Nobody can know what would happen in the path not taken.

 

[aramis erak]

If that were the case then no one would ever get anything from a library or a bookstore. I don't buy that argument as I've only ever heard it used on an internet forum.

Your repeated incredulities at long established psychological effects don't convince us you're right... but do tend to leave people looking at you like you're a 3 headed mutant.

The wall of books phenomenon is also known in library sciences - also referred to as the "series effect" - a long running series loses sales over the series as a general rule, because it becomes harder to find the initial books in the series. Several solutions are used:

• Dragonlance - several subseries
• Vorkosiverse - omnibus editions
• Honor Harrington - epubs on CD inside the hardback of all the prior books
• D&D - Edition churn.

All the same effect.