D&D 5E Chucking daggers: how do we throw two?

[DMCF]

I think this has enough of a grey area that common sense thinking about the skills of shooting and throwing make it clear enough that RAW sharp shooter does not apply to throwing. I've done a lot of each and in my experience swinging a baseball bat (or sword) has a lot more in common with throwing a ball (or knife) than shooting a gun (or crossbow).

Here is how I modified my campaign to allow for the feat:

Perfect Pitch
Honing your skill at throwing weapons you no longer gain disadvantage when throwing a weapon beyond it's normal accurate range. You ignore half and 3/4 cover when using a throwing weapon. Additionally, your superb skill at short distance with a thrown item means that you have better focus on your opponent's better protected or small vitals. Your may throw a weapon suffering a -2 penalty to hit with an increased chance to critical strike (19 or 20) when in what is considered the normal accurate range for a thrown item.

So basically, if a hatchet is 20 ft normal/60 ft. max (disadvantage) range , it is now 20 ft. (+crit), 60 ft max range. It doesn't stack with Champion bonuses and I think is still may be a little OP for thieves so I left out the ability to draw 2 weapons.

Regarding that however, a "Quick Draw" feat will soon make into my game. This allow a player to draw one extra weapon between attacks once per round. This also makes it nice for melee characters should they find their sword does little damage to a skeleton then switching to a mace for their next attack, and for those with multiple magic weapons with recharge rates.

 

[jgsugden]

The Sage Advice column hits on three concepts that should be considered here: "Rules as Written" (RAW), "Rules as Intended" (RAI), and "Rules as %$@# that, this is more fun" (RAF). RAF should always win.

In a game I'm DMing, if there is a PC that wants to throw daggers with each of their attacks, I am going to allow it unless they are only doing it to capitalize on a broken niche in the rules. If the rules technically say you can't draw that many daggers - well, the first rule in my DMG says that no technicality should stop the game from doing something fun.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Possibly darts would be a better model for daggers.

In the real world (yes, I know) a throwing dagger is quite different to a fighting dagger (and both are quite different to a bushcraft, hunting or camp knife). Also, the dart in D&D is completely different to the item we see thrown in pubs. I saw weapons in the Imperial War Museum labelled as "darts" that looked more like spear heads that had lost their shaft.

So, I'm happy with the ruling that Sharpshooter only works with Ranged Weapons and that the game model for a throwing dagger is the dart.

As for which ability works with which weapon, it works out like this.
Melee (whether held or thrown): STR
Melee Finesse (whether held or thrown): STR or DEX, same ability used for Attack and Damage
Ranged (whether thrown or firing ammunition): DEX

 

[Thyrwyn]

You forgot the Dart

Ranged Finesse (whether held or Thrown): STR or DEX, same ability used for attack & damage; can also be used to make melee attacks without being treated as an Improvised Weapon.

 

[Paraxis]

You forgot the Dart

Ranged Finesse (whether held or Thrown): STR or DEX, same ability used for attack & damage; can also be used to make melee attacks without being treated as an Improvised Weapon.

Where do you get that from?

Darts are ranged weapons using one in melee is like trying to use a crossbow, bow, or net in melee. It would be treated as an improvised weapon or used to make a ranged attack and suffer disadvantage.

 

[Cernor]

Where do you get that from?

Darts are ranged weapons using one in melee is like trying to use a crossbow, bow, or net in melee. It would be treated as an improvised weapon or used to make a ranged attack and suffer disadvantage.

Read up-thread for the detailed reason why. Short form: only weapons with the "Ammunition" property used to make melee attacks are considered improvised weapons. There are no rules stating that darts and nets can't be used to make melee attacks at full effectiveness.

 

[Kikuras]

Read up-thread for the detailed reason why. Short form: only weapons with the "Ammunition" property used to make melee attacks are considered improvised weapons. There are no rules stating that darts and nets can't be used to make melee attacks at full effectiveness.

Pg 148, under Improvised Weapons:
"If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage."

What this means is that any ranged weapon used as a melee weapon is improvised, and does 1d4. Of course a dart already does 1d4, but when used in melee it is classified as an improvised weapon. As for the net... well... now it does damage where before it didn't, I guess.

 

[Cernor]

Read the "Ammunition" property. "A ranged weapon [used] to make a melee attack" is a generalization that works in every case except for nets and darts, which is why they put it there... If you want a really detailed explanation of every relevant rule, read post 35. Or you can save yourself the time and take my word for it.

 

[Kikuras]

Read the "Ammunition" property. "A ranged weapon [used] to make a melee attack" is a generalization that works in every case except for nets and darts, which is why they put it there... If you want a really detailed explanation of every relevant rule, read post 35. Or you can save yourself the time and take my word for it.

The details found under the ammunition property apply to weapons with ammunition, and has no bearing on non-ammunition ranged weapons. What I quoted applies to all other ranged weapons, such as the dart, a non-ammunition ranged weapon. Simply put they are improvised weapons when used for melee attacks.

I appreciate the analysis on what is considered ranged vs melee, I've used those same arguments in other threads about thrown weapons being ranged weapons. Even so, amid all the lack of clarity in what is ranged and what is melee, pg 148 describes ranged weapons being used for melee combat as improvised weapons. The one argument that I could never conquer is that stupid arbitrary table on page 149 that clearly dictates what is melee and what is ranged, even if the text fails to match it.