D&D 5E Kender as an appropriate race

So long as life isn't on the line. The problem is that, frequently enough, RPG adventurers vie with forces that may kill hundreds or thousands of people, or end the world. Then, a difference of opinion on what's the right way to go could be a difference worth killing over.

...and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with the characters disagreeing and fighting. I only insist the players don't.

If a storyline winds up where the players are pitted against one another I will make it known ahead of time and give them a chance to work out what they will do when it comes down to it. A player could elect to play out the combat, compromise, or be elsewhere working another storyline. Whatever keeps things going. What I WON'T allow is a player using his character as justification for irritating everyone else. If you are diametrically opposed to everyone else in the party, there must be a good reason you are adventuring with them...goals in common. That has to take precendence, especially with regard to extreme alignment mismatches.

The only real problem is when players play their characters as cardboard cutouts - acting like alignment is a straitjacket insisting you do specific things at specific times. It is nothing of the sort, and such behavior is just a failure of imagination.
 

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An individual playing a kender-like character, by an aware player, may be feasible. I'll call it unlikely, but possible.

Kender, as written, would not form a functioning or sustainable society, nor would they be typically tolerated in a functioning society.

There ARE tribal societies with no concept of personal property. Some only have tribal property, and some have tribal and familial, but not personal.

There's nothing about the kender that renders their society untennable.

As to tolerating them? If they happily share surplus seed corn... People put up with organized crime... People put up with living in graveyards and landfills. Kender are no worse, and friendly, helpful, and of good cheer....
 

Some races presented in fantasy are so unique, or specialized, that they can only be enjoyed in specific settings or based on the story presented. Once you try to port them over to general fantasy, they start to experience problems. Questions may come up why they even exist. Kender are one of those races with a very specific viewpoint, and if you take it to a logical conclusion, you wonder why they are not on the endangered species list :)
 

There ARE tribal societies with no concept of personal property. Some only have tribal property, and some have tribal and familial, but not personal.

There's nothing about the kender that renders their society untennable.

As to tolerating them? If they happily share surplus seed corn... People put up with organized crime... People put up with living in graveyards and landfills. Kender are no worse, and friendly, helpful, and of good cheer....


OK, people bring these tribe up all the time... now if one of those tribes men where smarter then an average person AND traveled to London and lived there for a year, do you think they could learn the concept (weather they agree with it or not) of personal property... my bet is yes, but Kender fluff says no...

infact, if I play a level 20 wizard with a 20 INt who has spent the last ten years in game with my group od adventurers, and my background was that I apprenticed with the elves for ten years before that... the book says I still can't grasp the concept... and this isn't just me... it's my whole race
 

Should you need to be a good player to make a race work? No. And that's the standard, I think. The average roleplayer, not the best. We should be concerning ourselves with the majority in this case, not the exception.

Why?

There are classes and other mechanical options that are better suited for more experienced players. Why shouldn't there be RP options that do the same? Why should every single role-playing concept be presented for beginners? Playing a non-human should require more thought and care than playing a human.

(Plus, the idea of "don't use RP as an excuse to ruin the game for everyone" should be RP 101, and driven home to beginning players, anyway.)
 


I see a lot of stereotypes applied to Kender in ways that aren't intended in the sourcebooks.


I'd like to see the reference people keep referring to claiming Kender don't comprehend personal property. They do, and being called a thief is insulting to a Kender. They just have an insatiable curiosity that drives them to pick up everything. They will certainly return an item if the owner asks for for it. They were merely looking at it, keeping it from getting lost, thought the owner didn't want it anymore, etc. That shows a level of understanding, even if it is maddening to those around them. They often prefer beautiful shiny things over things of commercial value, however.

Kender do not blindly ignore danger. Their fearlessness doesn't prevent them from acting cautiously when the need arises. Yes, when combined with their curiosity it can get them into trouble, but they do know when to run, if only to live to be curious another day.

These things and more are spelled out in the Kender descriptions within Dragonlance Adventures (1987). Does no one really read?
 

I see a lot of stereotypes applied to Kender in ways that aren't intended in the sourcebooks.


I'd like to see the reference people keep referring to claiming Kender don't comprehend personal property. They do, and being called a thief is insulting to a Kender. They just have an insatiable curiosity that drives them to pick up everything. They will certainly return an item if the owner asks for for it. They were merely looking at it, keeping it from getting lost, thought the owner didn't want it anymore, etc. That shows a level of understanding, even if it is maddening to those around them. They often prefer beautiful shiny things over things of commercial value, however.

Kender do not blindly ignore danger. Their fearlessness doesn't prevent them from acting cautiously when the need arises. Yes, when combined with their curiosity it can get them into trouble, but they do know when to run, if only to live to be curious another day.

These things and more are spelled out in the Kender descriptions within Dragonlance Adventures (1987). Does no one really read?
Apparently not, least of all kender players.
 

There ARE tribal societies with no concept of personal property.

First, cite please.

Some only have tribal property, and some have tribal and familial, but not personal.

Any of them effectively above stone-age technology?

Sure, when a community has very little, perhaps all major tools are communal. In such a situation, nobody is going to wander off with required things "just 'cause". They will take the good spear because they think that the wild boar is nearby, and when we bring that back, whoa are we all going to eat well. Everyone knows when major tools are being used, so it isn't a big deal. This is a society that probably can't afford for tools to not be in use, or lost for no good reason. And, in all likelihood, they probably have very little in the way of luxury goods.

This is entirely different from the kender, "I don't need this, but will wander off with it anyway, and never tell anyone, and will even forget that I have it." When the kender blacksmith has no hammers, the baker's supply of yeast has wandered off, and the tanner's knives are off at the bottom of a pouch across town, and the farmer's plowhorses are nowhere to be seen, work doesn't get done.

There's nothing about the kender that renders their society untennable.

See above - for complex work to be done, the tools to do it need to be present. Moreoever, kender, as depicted, have a permanent case of unmedicated ADHD, but withotu the potential for hyper-focus. They cannot sit still for long enough to do a day's labor. They cannot tolerate being bored, or waiting for things. I don't recall that actually see any kender undertaking complex craftwork for more than a day. That's a major issue.

If they happily share surplus seed corn...

But, they don't! They won't have it on hand when you need it, because they don't seem to plan anything. And if they do have it, then you'll have to go through the whole darned community to *find* it, because nobody's bothered to keep track of it. "Accounting" does not seem to be in kender nature, so having the resources needed when they are needed is not going to happen.

People put up with organized crime...

Yeah, Capone went to jail because people put up with him. Sure.

Kender are no worse, and friendly, helpful, and of good cheer....

Kender are friendly and of good cheer, yes. They are not helpful. They may desire to be helpful, but their inability to understand the wants of other people (which is well documented - not only do they know have a sense of personal property, they are *incapable* of learning that others do have such a sense, and maybe they shouldn't violate it), or what the rest of the world considers "value" means they cannot generally act in a way that helps others.

So, let us imagine that you had a kender as a roommate. Tomorrow morning, your cell phone is gone. No, he doesn't know where it is, and never saw it. Two days later, your laptop or desktop computer is gone. It has been replaced with a vase of flowers. Very pretty. He thought it would cheer you up after the loss of your cell phone!

Next week, your car is gone. But you now have a new stand mixer. Shiny, isn't it?

The day after that, there are four large dogs in your bathroom. Your roommate says he has no idea how they got there, but they sure do look hungry.

Day after that, there's a car in the driveway. It isn't yours. And the cops followed the Lojack, and are knocking on the door.

And those are just the big-ticket items. You do not have a consistent set of dishware or silverware to your name. Your shampoo cannot be expected to be the same one day to the next, and three days ago, all your underwear were replaced with shotglasses.

This is "helpful" as a kender sees it.
 

I see a lot of stereotypes applied to Kender in ways that aren't intended in the sourcebooks.


I'd like to see the reference people keep referring to claiming Kender don't comprehend personal property. They do, and being called a thief is insulting to a Kender. They just have an insatiable curiosity that drives them to pick up everything. They will certainly return an item if the owner asks for for it. They were merely looking at it, keeping it from getting lost, thought the owner didn't want it anymore, etc. That shows a level of understanding, even if it is maddening to those around them. They often prefer beautiful shiny things over things of commercial value, however.

Kender do not blindly ignore danger. Their fearlessness doesn't prevent them from acting cautiously when the need arises. Yes, when combined with their curiosity it can get them into trouble, but they do know when to run, if only to live to be curious another day.

These things and more are spelled out in the Kender descriptions within Dragonlance Adventures (1987). Does no one really read?

it's been years since I read anything other then that NSFW 4chan write up picture, so if you have a picture of text saying that kenders do learn over time about personal property I will admit I am wrong...
 

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