D&D 5E Kender as an appropriate race


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With all due respect to you...

That is a nonsense rationalization of what is still, in effect, "I will not respect your personal property". I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they don't understand it, rather than be just lying thieves - "It must have fallen into my pocket? The thing weighs three pounds, you little creep!". If you will take off with it without permission, and never give it back unless they figure out who took it, hunt you down and ask for it back, that's not alternate understanding of ownership. That's *THEFT*. That the kender hates being called a thief doesn't mean they aren't one. People often hate being told the truth about themselves, when that truth isn't complimentary.

I'm not rationalizing anything. I pulled that almost verbatim from the Kender description. Now you may think the book is rationalizing, but that's something else entirely. The book explains that they don't steal, they borrow. In their society no one would ever think to say no, so they naively assume everyone thinks the same. The books show that Kender do learn after being around other races for a time (even Tasselhoff did), so I think the problem is not really the race, but rather the same bad players that cause problems with virtually everything they play by playing cardboard cutouts with zero thought beyond themselves, or worse, by maliciously playing cardboard cutouts in an attempt to annoy everyone around them.

I get that a lot of people don't like Kender, I really do, and that's OK. Personally I think Tieflings and Barbarians are completely idiotic, but I wouldn't ban someone from playing them. I just don't see Kender as any less appropriate as a character race than any of the other problematic race/class/alignment combinations. Truthfully, the most disruptive in my experience has been the lawful good paladin of any race.

To those who suggest Kender society is unbelieveable....really? I mean really? Yeah, because a race of short bearded dudes/dudettes who live their entire lives drunk off their asses in underground mines are believable as a functional society. Don't get me started on elves. Arrogant bastards who wouldn't lift a finger to plant crops if they were all starving to death. Tieflings should just be executed on sight. Goliath - cause half-orcs weren't bad enough, we needed another race of big stupid people. Wait isn't that redundant with respect to the barbarian class? See, I can play that game too. It's fantasy people. It takes no more effort to believe Kender could exist than Dwarves.

It's incredible the lack of imagination one can find among D&D players.
 



I'm not rationalizing anything.

To use your own words: Read closer and try again.

I said, "That is a nonsense rationalization..." Note how I do *NOT* say who is doing the rationalizing? I very specifically did not say *you* are rationalizing.

So, let us move on.

The book explains that they don't steal, they borrow.

The book explains that the kender don't think of it as stealing, but that pretty much every other race on the planet *does* think they are stealing. Given that we see canon examples of kender lying to themselves and others about it, it is reasonable to take the majority as correct. Taking off with something without permission is theft. The fact that theysupposedly intend to return it, but never do, doesn't make them honest - it makes them bigger, even more habitual liars.

In their society no one would ever think to say no, so they naively assume everyone thinks the same.

They continue to assume that despite being told otherwise constantly. When they can manage *every other* concept, they cannot handle this one? Even Tasslehoff doesn't really get it, as he uses all the same old "it fell in my pocket" nonsense to maintain his innocence. That is beyond cultural differences, into self-supporting delusions.

To those who suggest Kender society is unbelieveable....really? I mean really?

As a self-sustaining society? Yep, really. Because of this, direct from the book, verbatim: "With their short attention spans, kender rarely focus on any one thing for too long. It's when a kender is bored that a kender is most feared. A kender who can't find anything interesting to do determines to do something interesting, often with dire consequences."

So, all those arduous and tedious things like spinning, weaving, farming, mining, cutting and collecting lumber and firewood - kender can't sustain these activities. They cannot produce the basics required to keep an iron age society in motion. Thus, they are not self-sustaining, and can only really exist as leeches on the societies of others who can produce the basic needs of life.

It's incredible the lack of imagination one can find among D&D players.

Because insulting people is an excellent way to get them to accept your points as valid? I strongly suggest you stop accusing those who don't agree with you of being mentally deficient. Such rudeness is not acceptable.
 

To use your own words: Read closer and try again.

I said, "That is a nonsense rationalization..." Note how I do *NOT* say who is doing the rationalizing? I very specifically did not say *you* are rationalizing.

So, let us move on.

I said you may think the book is rationalizing, and not I. It wasn't entirely clear from your post, so I phrased it that way deliberately.




As a self-sustaining society? Yep, really.

I didn't mean to imply there were especially believable, just hardly less believeable than a bunch of drunken dwarves living under a mountain, or groups of effete elves living off the land.


Because insulting people is an excellent way to get them to accept your points as valid? I strongly suggest you stop accusing those who don't agree with you of being mentally deficient. Such rudeness is not acceptable.

I apologize for that. That wasn't directed at you specifically, just general frustration with people prepared to accept all kinds of unbelievable insanity, yet draw the line at Kender. There's nothing wrong with disliking Kender, as I said before, but to wholly discount what other people might enjoy playing smacks of hypocrisy and a failure of imagination. Like I said, personally I find Tieflings are stupid, yet I wouldn't consider banning a player from choosing to play one.
 

As much as I dislike Kender (and feel they are explicitly designed to cause unnecessary conflict between players and the group vs the world), I have to wonder if people realize that the D&D multiverse was created by what effectively amounts to intelligent design and is sustained by divine intervention. Which would constantly twist the natural laws as we know them irl into pretzels and dunk them into cheese whiz, before promptly declaring that they wanted eggplant parmesan instead and throwing the whole mess into the garbage disposal.
 

Kender are just part of the reason that to me Dragonlance is so.. original in its races and themes. Sure it does borrow a lot of its themes from other settings but like Dark Sun it also has races which wouldnt work elsewhere. Tinker Gnomes, Kender and Draconians are 3 great examples. They belong to Dragonlance and porting them elsewhere dosnt make much sense.
 

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