D&D 5E 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

[CaptainGemini]

And over time, the people you tick off will be less and less, as people get used to the unfamiliar. Which is pretty much the whole point of doing it in the first place.

If that is what you are relying on, I would caution you to not treat it as any greater a foundation than sand. That has been said many, many times in American history about changes like this. Some of those happened nearly two hundred years ago at this point, and people are still waiting for the bigots to go away or at least lessen in numbers.

These people will lose some power. But if history is any indication, I fear they will be around as long as America is. It's possible you cannot have one without the other. And that to be rid of one, you have to destroy the other. But that is for our children to decide.

 

[Hussar]

If that is what you are relying on, I would caution you to not treat it as any greater a foundation than sand. That has been said many, many times in American history about changes like this. Some of those happened nearly two hundred years ago at this point, and people are still waiting for the bigots to go away or at least lessen in numbers.

These people will lose some power. But if history is any indication, I fear they will be around as long as America is. It's possible you cannot have one without the other. And that to be rid of one, you have to destroy the other. But that is for our children to decide.

To be fair though, while there are certainly still issues to be dealt with, I'm fairly confident in saying that we have made some pretty significant strides forward in dealing with social issues. The idea that we shouldn't do it because we'll never be 100% successful doesn't really wash too much. Any improvement is an improvement, regardless of how small.

 

[CaptainGemini]

To be fair though, while there are certainly still issues to be dealt with, I'm fairly confident in saying that we have made some pretty significant strides forward in dealing with social issues. The idea that we shouldn't do it because we'll never be 100% successful doesn't really wash too much. Any improvement is an improvement, regardless of how small.

You'll get no argument from me

 

[ExploderWizard]

Then you agree with me that having the occasional same-sex couple among the npc's wouldn't be a problem. Right?

Not a problem at all.

What point are you trying to make?

How is any f that relevant t what you quoted?

The point is that focusing on mundane personal crap at the very moment the whole world is crashing is a bit silly. You really need to see the video to get the context.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Even if the game setting itself might have the expected "backwards" pseudo-medieval social standards (beginning from Nobility being seen as inherently better than regular people, over women being only used to marry away and have children, to gays being seen as abominations and what not), we players should not.

Absolutely, this.

The D&D game can accommodate a vast range of settings, from optimistic wish-fulfillment ones with modern progressive sexual mores through mythic-historical ones with less enlightened values to exotic and truly fantastical ones where the customs are just plain different. That's okay, and more than okay -- it's wonderful. The one constant is that the game is, well, a game. It needs to be fun and enjoyable for everybody who's playing it.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The point is that focusing on mundane personal crap at the very moment the whole world is crashing is a bit silly.

I've really gotta disagree with that assertion.

If the world was crashing down, and I'm Some NPC and not a Big Dang Hero, then I'm spending it with the people I love the most - friends and family, including the person I'm in love with. If I'm fleeing danger, I'm doing it with my spouse. That's a normal human instinct, and it'd be what most NPCs in most disaster scenarios do IMCs.

Showing this in an adventure narratively reinforces what is at stake, what will be risked if the party loses - the loss, the pain, the suffering that the world crashing down will create. They're saving the world to prevent tragedies. Parents weeping over their children's short lives, or ones who want to rush into the fray because they can't stand to do nothing.

Even as a PC, personal relationships are often at the core of your motivation to do anything. You fight evil because there is something you care about protecting in this world, something you love enough to risk your life to protect it. This has often been a particular individual for my characters. Even when not fighting for that person in particular, relationships (often broken ones) might make up a significant part of the character's history. And if they don't come up in the backstory, they come up during play, when the demon king sends his succubi to distract the party or when they encounter the nymph in a secluded wood, or when they are lured by the song of the sirens or the harpies, or lured in by a hag's attractive illusion. The enemy will use your sexuality against you.

Relationships and sexuality have been part and parcel of the game since its inception, and will continue to be going forward. And they should be! It's borderline absurd to try and bar these elements from the game. They're as much a part of the fantasy world as longswords and wizards. They will appear, and when they appear, I think they should appear in diverse forms.

 

[Azzy]

If that is what you are relying on, I would caution you to not treat it as any greater a foundation than sand. That has been said many, many times in American history about changes like this. Some of those happened nearly two hundred years ago at this point, and people are still waiting for the bigots to go away or at least lessen in numbers.

These people will lose some power. But if history is any indication, I fear they will be around as long as America is. It's possible you cannot have one without the other. And that to be rid of one, you have to destroy the other. But that is for our children to decide.

Here's a bit of consolation. My nephew is trans (biologically female, yadda yadda) and uses masculine pronouns and such. He's had all of one person at his high school take issue with him (and only on the issue of pronouns, not about being trans), and that got resolved when my nephew started using feminine pronouns to refer to the boy (who then realized that sucked, and stopped doing that to my nephew). I also have a niece that's lesbian. Absolutely no issues at high school, either. This is in Florida.

Kids these days... There's hope for humanity, yet.

 

[mrm1138]

They're still getting another dime from me until they start including badass art though.

Forgive me if someone else already pointed this out, but I most definitely think this qualifies:



And this especially does:

 

[Rygar]

I've really gotta disagree with that assertion.

If the world was crashing down, and I'm Some NPC and not a Big Dang Hero, then I'm spending it with the people I love the most - friends and family, including the person I'm in love with. If I'm fleeing danger, I'm doing it with my spouse. That's a normal human instinct, and it'd be what most NPCs in most disaster scenarios do IMCs.

Showing this in an adventure narratively reinforces what is at stake, what will be risked if the party loses - the loss, the pain, the suffering that the world crashing down will create. They're saving the world to prevent tragedies. Parents weeping over their children's short lives, or ones who want to rush into the fray because they can't stand to do nothing.

Even as a PC, personal relationships are often at the core of your motivation to do anything. You fight evil because there is something you care about protecting in this world, something you love enough to risk your life to protect it. This has often been a particular individual for my characters. Even when not fighting for that person in particular, relationships (often broken ones) might make up a significant part of the character's history. And if they don't come up in the backstory, they come up during play, when the demon king sends his succubi to distract the party or when they encounter the nymph in a secluded wood, or when they are lured by the song of the sirens or the harpies, or lured in by a hag's attractive illusion. The enemy will use your sexuality against you.

Relationships and sexuality have been part and parcel of the game since its inception, and will continue to be going forward. And they should be! It's borderline absurd to try and bar these elements from the game. They're as much a part of the fantasy world as longswords and wizards. They will appear, and when they appear, I think they should appear in diverse forms.

I really have to disagree with your assertion.

I suspect that what happens at virtually every table is some brief "As you walk down the street you see children weeping into their parents arms, couples comfort each other in the shadows..." etc. I sincerely doubt anyone bothers describing the exact sexual orientation of every couple they walk past, because honestly it is completely irrelevant to the game and to the narrative. The only purpose of describing it in such detail is to pursue a political agenda, because I suspect almost no-one is playing a game where they're handling a disaster scenario and is focused on determining the sexual orientation of the NPC's.

If we were talking a murder mystery, or a missing person, then sure the sexual orientation might be relevant insofar as the PCs need to know who they're looking for, but beyond that it's almost always going to be irrelevant.

I've been trying to avoid jumping into this topic since its inception, as I really don't have any problem with any kind of relationships, but we're crossing the line between reflecting the realistic relationships when we have to define such relationships in situations where they aren't relevant to the game or narrative, at that point we're no longer pursuing the topic of being X-Phobic and we're starting to pursue the topic of political statements.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I really have to disagree with your assertion.

I suspect that what happens at virtually every table is some brief "As you walk down the street you see children weeping into their parents arms, couples comfort each other in the shadows..." etc. I sincerely doubt anyone bothers describing the exact sexual orientation of every couple they walk past, because honestly it is completely irrelevant to the game and to the narrative.

Your flaw here is in presuming that NPC's are ever only a meaningless and general background element - there's no individual NPC's? No patrons or contacts? No specific character you can point to when you talk about the family or the couple?

Consider: "As you walk down the street, you see Dirk, the town miller, and his husband Rob comforting their children, their flour-covered faces streaked with tears."

Or: "The Queen has refused to see anyone, spending time alone with her beloved Jenivive. Without her rulership, the servants have abandoned the castle leaving it a barren place, cavernous and dark."

There's even specific married NPC's in Hommlett, as [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] pointed out.

The only purpose of describing it in such detail is to pursue a political agenda, because I suspect almost no-one is playing a game where they're handling a disaster scenario and is focused on determining the sexual orientation of the NPC's.

If we were talking a murder mystery, or a missing person, then sure the sexual orientation might be relevant insofar as the PCs need to know who they're looking for, but beyond that it's almost always going to be irrelevant.

Your assertion that it is irrelevant is contradicted by the existence of any married couple or amorous monster or sexy illusion in any module ever (and there's more than one). Love and sexuality crop up all the time in stories, including in RPG stories. It's not too much to ask that when it appears, it is appropriately diverse.

I've been trying to avoid jumping into this topic since its inception, as I really don't have any problem with any kind of relationships, but we're crossing the line between reflecting the realistic relationships when we have to define such relationships in situations where they aren't relevant to the game or narrative, at that point we're no longer pursuing the topic of being X-Phobic and we're starting to pursue the topic of political statements.

Love and relationships are relevant to many narratives, and asking for those to be diverse isn't a simple matter of politics.