D&D 5E 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

[TheCosmicKid]

I'm pretty sure if I played a female character, it would be just a dude with boobs.

What does this even mean? There is no one "women's personality" or "men's personality". The range of individual personalities is wayyy broader than whatever statistical difference may exist between the sexes. No matter how "manly" you act, there are plenty of real-life women who act that way -- and I'd wager that many of them, if you met them, you would not even find remarkably tomboyish. So my advice is not to sweat it. Just play your character as you imagine him or her.

Fun fact: Ripley in Alien was written with no first name or defined gender in the original script. Cast Sigourney Weaver, and all of a sudden people are writing analyses about how the film allegorizes the contrast between female (Ripley) and male (xenomorph) sexuality and all other manner of gender-based navel-gazing. There's not that big a difference between men and women -- it's just that people see women and then look for a difference.

 

[Sunseeker]

Hrm, to be honest, I've never gender bent my characters. Not sure why. I think, perhaps, it's that I just don't think I'd do it justice. I'm pretty sure if I played a female character, it would be just a dude with boobs. I don't think I have the acting chops to pull it off at the table. Then again, I tend to play humans primarily as well, so, it's not like gender bending is some special category.

OTOH, as a DM, I've done lots of female NPC's. Maybe it's just the idea of keeping up the personality over an extended period of time that I'm not sure I could do.

Hrm, maybe I should take a spin.

How is a woman not a "dude with boobs"? You may want to consider your answer to this carefully before replying. There's also no requirement she actually have substantially more of a curvaceous figure than a man.

I play mostly female characters. I don't know why, I don't want to make women, but my male characters come out horrible (i'm male). I made one successful male character, a swashbucker, who was basically Aramis (or any other swarthy, chest-hair-faulting, sexy-pirate-type) but beyond that actually had good character. The rest of my men are little more than puns.

Unless you want your character to act in explicitly trope-based feminine manners (such as be overly caring, loves babies, likes pretty clothing, etc... or is the typical dirty-word-for-a-woman-who-has-a-lot-of-sex) then all you need to do is make a good character concept and decide they've got an inne instead of an outie. You may want to account for certain setting-based assumptions (maybe your character left home where women weren't allowed to get jobs and made a new life for yourself as an adventurer) but otherwise that's unnecessary fluff.

My favorite character was my female tiefling paladin. She was honorable, polite, respectful of the law and others, but hard-headed, aggressive and a little overly protective of her friends. None of her starring qualities that made her who she was were explicitly female. I threw in some fluff about her getting treated poorly for being a tiefling and for being a woman by people who were expressly written and jerks but she didn't have any tropeishly feminine qualities. I did also take some time to talk to my female friends when there was something female-related that I as a guy didn't understand and that helped with both my writing and my roleplay.

I would be a little more cautious about playing homosexual or trans characters, especially if you have friends who are homosexual or trans since if you don't make an overt effort to do it right, it's very easy to do wrong.
--On that note, I think I accidentally made my elf monk trans-dragon, they got turned into a dragon via a wish and now they're legitimately confused as to who or what they are.

What does this even mean? There is no one "women's personality" or "men's personality". The range of individual personalities is wayyy broader than whatever statistical difference may exist between the sexes. No matter how "manly" you act, there are plenty of real-life women who act that way -- and I'd wager that many of them, if you met them, you would not even find remarkably tomboyish. So my advice is not to sweat it. Just play your character as you imagine him or her.

Fun fact: Ripley in Alien was written with no first name or defined gender in the original script. Cast Sigourney Weaver, and all of a sudden people are writing analyses about how the film allegorizes the contrast between female (Ripley) and male (xenomorph) sexuality and all other manner of gender-based navel-gazing. There's not that big a difference between men and women -- it's just that people see women and then look for a difference.

Mostly this.

 

[mrm1138]

What does ["dude with boobs"] even mean?

This refers to a fairly common archetype wherein writers, in an effort to create a "strong female character," write a woman who rejects stereotypically feminine traits and embraces stereotypically masculine ones instead. There's a pretty decent writeup on the blog The Alchemy of Writing. Here's a select quote:

There's an element (particularly among male writers, I think) of a sort of male fantasy in all of this. The ol' We can drink beer, watch sports, bash a bad guy -- and then have sex! Yippee! The strong female character who is seamlessly one of the guys... and yet so often denies female contact. No female friends, no traditionally feminine hobbies or interests. This would reduce "strength"; this would be "soft". It's the kickass heroine who also happens to be eternally full of sexual smolder. Sexual relations can either go further in showing the gender skew, with the woman taking on the dominant and traditionally masculine role, or it can subvert it at a base level: yes, she's a hero and can kick ass, but, you know, she still does what I want her to do in bed. Oh yeah. Who's the man.

Power is appropriated by the masculine. To be "strong", you have to be like "us", the men. It's the old patriarchal structure, only with a twist: we'll let you in... if you meet the criteria. If you're a woman who's man enough for us.

http://alchemyofwriting.blogspot.com/2011/01/men-with-breasts-strong-female.html

 

[Chaosmancer]

Except that particular example of stupidity isn't a written rule. Never has been.

You ran afoul of a bad DM enforcing a choice as chosen rather than a rule as written.
Except it's still not a rule, it's a guideline. And even if it was a rule ye olde faulty DM could still say "you're allowed to play LGBT characters but only if they are (or represent) as your own gender"; a ruling equally as foolish.

Lan-"who is now curious as to whether I've played more male or female characters in my career"-efan

I'd like to be a devil's advocate for people who cannot defend their own positions. It is very possible that the DM in question had the "men can't play women" rule for a good reason. Specifically, there is a trope and cliche (both of which I'm sure have origins in fact) of men playing female characters soley to be stupid about it. Flashing and fondling their "glorious heaving buxom" or other such gratuitous stupidity. For quite a while I was very nervous about letting men play female character for this reason. However, since I had never experienced the bad role-playing first hand, I simply stated that if you were to play a gender bent character it is to be a serious attempt, not a poorly thought out joke, because I'm not ten and I want women to be treated with respect. I understand that would never have been the intent of Tia Nadiezja, and the DM should have given you a chance to prove that, but declaring someone stupid without knowing more of the situation seemed a little harsh.

This refers to a fairly common archetype wherein writers, in an effort to create a "strong female character," write a woman who rejects stereotypically feminine traits and embraces stereotypically masculine ones instead. There's a pretty decent writeup on the blog The Alchemy of Writing. Here's a select quote:

http://alchemyofwriting.blogspot.com/2011/01/men-with-breasts-strong-female.html

Pretty much what I was going to say. While I agree that you can find women who act and think like those characters, it has been shown that women can tell when a female character was written by a man instead of a woman, because there are discrepancies in how they are portrayed. Sure, maybe the guy is doing it that way on purpose, maybe that is the character, but it is a fair concern that a person does not feel themselves capable of adequately playing as something they are not.

After all, how many of us could truly think and react as a 10,000 year old, near omnipotent being would. The scope of the difference between our perspective and their's is too big to ignore. However, while we probably can't do too poorly as an elf or dragonborn or warforged since they don't exist yet, worrying about poorly portraying a woman or a cultural minority (for us Americans) like a Muslim or Hindu is much more reasonable.

 

[Hussar]

What does this even mean? There is no one "women's personality" or "men's personality". The range of individual personalities is wayyy broader than whatever statistical difference may exist between the sexes. No matter how "manly" you act, there are plenty of real-life women who act that way -- and I'd wager that many of them, if you met them, you would not even find remarkably tomboyish. So my advice is not to sweat it. Just play your character as you imagine him or her.

Fun fact: Ripley in Alien was written with no first name or defined gender in the original script. Cast Sigourney Weaver, and all of a sudden people are writing analyses about how the film allegorizes the contrast between female (Ripley) and male (xenomorph) sexuality and all other manner of gender-based navel-gazing. There's not that big a difference between men and women -- it's just that people see women and then look for a difference.

Hrm, let's see if I can do this without starting a fight.

I've seen far, far too many elf characters where it was entirely impossible, without looking at the character sheet, to know that this character is an elf. I've been in groups where one player turns to the other player and says, "What do you mean you can see in the dark? You're an elf? Since when?". To me, this is a failure (I'm not saying it's a failure to everyone, just me) in role play in that the player in question has not presented his or her character in such a way that the other people at the table have an accurate picture of the character in their minds. Granted, it might be a failing in others, true, but, I've seen it happen fairly often that elves get played as "Humans with pointy ears". The fact that they are virtually immortal, non-humans just never comes out in the portrayal. And I really don't like it.

If my female character acts exactly the same way as my male characters, to the point where no outside observer would have any idea that my character wasn't male, then what's the point of playing a female character? For me, role playing (and again, I'm not badwrongfunning here, I'm talking about what I enjoy) is about the portrayal of the character. For me, success is when the other players at the table refer to me by my character's name and act and react according to the character I've portrayed, not me, personally.

And, to be 100% honest, I've never really been sure how to pull it off with a female character. I'm afraid that my female characters would either be "just another dude" or would come off as too stereotypical. Like I said, it's my failing. To respond to your last point, my fear would be that people would look at my character and not see a woman at all. Which, again for me, makes me think, "what was the point of gender bending?"

Still in the vein of full disclosure, I bring this attitude to all facets of my character. If my character is from a particular group of people/culture, whether fantasy or real, I really try to make that a visible part of my characters. In an old GURPS game, I was a black scientist from Nigeria on a mission to Mars, and I did a bit of homework and brought Nigerian culture points to the table during play. Food he chose to eat, methods of dress, culture references, that sort of thing. It wasn't the only facet of this character, nor even a major element of the character, but, I know that everyone at the table had a pretty good mental picture of my character when we were playing.

And to me, that's successful roleplaying.

((wow, how many times did I just repeat "to me" in a single post. LOL ))

 

[delericho]

I'd like to be a devil's advocate for people who cannot defend their own positions. It is very possible that the DM in question had the "men can't play women" rule for a good reason. Specifically, there is a trope and cliche (both of which I'm sure have origins in fact) of men playing female characters soley to be stupid about it. Flashing and fondling their "glorious heaving buxom" or other such gratuitous stupidity.

Yep. I had a table rule of that sort for exactly that reason - too many instances of bad (and sometimes deeply offensive) portrayals. One of the benefits of age (or perhaps just being in a different group) is that this is no longer an issue, and so the rule has long since been abandoned.

(It's also worth noting that, in the time that the rule did apply, I also never (knowingly) encountered a player for whom the restriction was an issue. I like to think I would have handled it better than the DM described did - the rule was always to head off potential problems, not to make them worse.)

Does this DM not let humans play non-humans either?

There's a key difference - women exist.

 

[Tia Nadiezja]

(It's also worth noting that, in the time that the rule did apply, I also never (knowingly) encountered a player for whom the restriction was an issue. I like to think I would have handled it better than the DM described did - the rule was always to head off potential problems, not to make them worse.)

The thing is... most trans people are closeted, pretty deep. We're still in a fair bit of danger if exposed in a lot of places. Public restrooms, for me, are a constant source of fear.

Chances are that if the policy was an issue for someone, you'd never know.

 

[delericho]

The thing is... most trans people are closeted, pretty deep. We're still in a fair bit of danger if exposed in a lot of places. Public restrooms, for me, are a constant source of fear.

Chances are that if the policy was an issue for someone, you'd never know.

Indeed, hence my use of "(knowingly)". Unfortunately, it was a case of picking the lesser evil - I was reasonably sure that some of those male players playing female characters would be problematic, and in a public venue (student union), versus the relatively small possibility of a trans- player having a problem with the restriction.

I hope the way I handled things then didn't cause any problems for any real people, but of course I can't know.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

...it has been shown that women can tell when a female character was written by a man instead of a woman, because there are discrepancies in how they are portrayed.

This strikes me as a very fraught claim. What's the sample text? Was there one text or many? How long were they? What was the subject matter(s)? Who wrote them? Was it one writer or many? Size of subject pool? Blind or double-blind? Etc.

---

If my female character acts exactly the same way as my male characters, to the point where no outside observer would have any idea that my character wasn't male, then what's the point of playing a female character? For me, role playing (and again, I'm not badwrongfunning here, I'm talking about what I enjoy) is about the portrayal of the character. For me, success is when the other players at the table refer to me by my character's name and act and react according to the character I've portrayed, not me, personally.

Me too. But let me respond with another question: do your male characters all "act exactly the same way"? If not, how can a female character act exactly the same way as them?

And, to be 100% honest, I've never really been sure how to pull it off with a female character. I'm afraid that my female characters would either be "just another dude" or would come off as too stereotypical.

I see where you're coming from. My advice would be to avoid stereotypes like the plague but not to worry overmuch about being "just another dude". Things might be more complicated in a GURPS game, but in D&D, all female characters are from a certain perspective "just another dude" in that their empowerment comes through the traditionally masculine pursuits of violence and wealth acquisition. What I'm getting at here is that this certain perspective is a rather blinkered one. Who decided that these pursuits were particularly manly? An awful lot of "manly" stuff is associated with men more because women were historically excluded from it than anything intrinsic about the sexes. When a woman becomes a CEO or whatever, she's not acting like "just another dude". She's acting like just another human being.

To respond to your last point, my fear would be that people would look at my character and not see a woman at all.

My point was that people don't determine whether they're seeing a woman or a man based on behavioral cues. They determine whether they're seeing a woman or a man based on, well, the immediate fact that they're seeing a woman or a man, then interpret behaviors through that filter. Someone reading the Alien script would not see a woman in Ripley, and might given the general bias of our culture assume that the character is a man by default. It's not that Ripley explicitly rejects femininity and does manly things; it's just that she's in a situation where those considerations do not apply. Once she's actually portrayed by an actress instead of an actor, there's no doubt that she's a woman, and indeed, people start interpreting her actions as feminine.

Now, this "immediate fact" thing is a challenge for D&D, because the person portraying the female character is in immediate fact a man. I think this is actually the biggest obstacle to suspension of disbelief: it's not how you play her, it's just your ruggedly handsome face and smooth baritone voice. A visual aid, like a character portrait or a figurine, can help somewhat.

Which, again for me, makes me think, "what was the point of gender bending?"

I don't think there has to be a point to it. There's no point to actual people being born male or female -- they didn't choose to do it, it just happened that way.

 

[Salamandyr]

I don't know where it's been shown but I can generally tell the difference between characters as written by women and characters written by men. In general, women are no better at writing men than men are at writing women; a little worse possibly, since they are rarely challenged on it the way men are (as well as some sociological issues not really germaine to gaming).

Of course, within a sex there's a wide array of behavior, and it can be claimed by any author that, will their characterizations aren't realistic to one sex or another, in general, they're perfect represantations of the character they're writing.

The A number-one way to get readers on your side, to be considered "realistic", is to flatter the reader.