D&D 5E 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

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We are talking about D&D, and that means there is space for Virgo Bellatrixes and Shieldmaiden characters.

Maybe you think this would be an April's fool but... have you imagined a D&D version of "My little pony: frienship is magic" or "Equestrian Girls"? I have said the manga subgenre of magical girl or maho shojo may be very popular.

And don't forget veterans playing with daughters and nieces.
 

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Evandis

First Post
It's your game, if you want an NPC/Character to be male, female, transgender, straight, gay, bi-sexual, asexual, a necrophile, a person who is sexually attracted to pete moss, than make it so. Nothing is stopping you. I don't understand people anymore, they need to see this character created by someone else (in this case WotC) and published in an official book in order for it to be that? Why? Why should time and resources be wasted to make sure there is a population proportionate amount of NPCs that fall into each category? Why anyone has to even keep count?

So the NPC bar wench is attracted to a dark and handsome male in the book, you want her to be attracted to beautiful blonde female elves instead in the name of equality...ready watch how simple this is...now she is, in your game, in your mind, in your players mind, who cares what the book says? The whole purpose of this hobby is to be able to think out of the box, creatively and build the world you want, so do it, and stop worrying about what the example in the book says. It's not lip service, it's just simply WotC hoping you have enough initiative and intelligence to change things to how you want them for your game, while I change them for how I want them for my game.

It's a game. Not everything in the world has to be viewed through the eyes of social justice. Just because Lara Croft had a ridiculously tiny waist, huge boobs and swung around dungeons doesn't mean I expected my wife to fit that unreasonable image and she doesn't, and I love her exactly the way she is.

TLDR; If you want everyone in your world to be a hot transgender person than make it so, stop waiting for someone else to make it so.
 

Lanliss

Explorer
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What are some other well depicted female warriors?

I enjoyed several of the female leads in the Ice Mark trilogy, if you have ever heard of those. There is actually an entire group of people who are exclusively Matriarchal, without being heavily insulting towards men (as far as I remember. It has been a few years since my last reading). There is also Sabriel, or Lireal, from the Abhorsen series by Garth Nix. Although, it is sometimes easy to forget that Sabriel is female (once again, as far as I remember). There was Mallory from the Spiderwick series, though that is fantasy in modern day, so I am not sure how well it applies to this situation. That is all I can think of for now, though I may come back later with some more.
 

Wik

First Post
It's your game, if you want an NPC/Character to be male, female, transgender, straight, gay, bi-sexual, asexual, a necrophile, a person who is sexually attracted to pete moss, than make it so.

First, it's kind of the epitome of jerkdom to put in necrophilia in the same sentence as, well, a lot of what you're saying. I'm going to assume you didn't mean it that way, and just put it there by way of making a joke.

Nothing is stopping you. I don't understand people anymore, they need to see this character created by someone else (in this case WotC) and published in an official book in order for it to be that? Why?

Because while you can do whatever you want - and no one in this thread has been contesting that, at all - it pays to have an official supplier of the product actually endorse that lifestyle choice. Do you remember years ago, when the TV show Ellen had the main character "come out"? That was a big deal - even though it didn't change anyone's actual life. Why? Because it showed that the TV networks were willing to accept the existence of homosexuals as main characters... before that, they were just "confirmed bachelors" or something silly like that.

Or think of the occasional gay character that shows up in Doctor Who (especially during Eccleston and Tenant's runs). It wasn't a big deal - just a line in passing. And in doing so, it showed that the series was recognizing the diversity of human life.

We know we can make NPCs gay if we like. But it's sure nice to see a bit of recognition in official products... which is an entirely different thing.

Why should time and resources be wasted to make sure there is a population proportionate amount of NPCs that fall into each category?

Time? It's pretty simple to, once in a while, flip things. No one's asking for a perfect demographic representation. We see a LOT of products where someone will "be influenced by the highest charisma female" or something to that effect. It's pretty easy to flip that and say "He'll be influenced by the highest charisma male".

In the most recent Adventure Path from WotC, Out of the Abyss, there's a whole slew of NPCs that will travel with the characters... and I can see a few that could be made homosexual or transgender (there is a hermaphroditic myconid, I guess...) It doesn't take any extra page count to invert the sexuality once or twice. Hell, they even mention a drow priestesses lovers... so it's not like wotc is avoiding the concept of romance or sexuality in their games.

So why not flip it?

Why anyone has to even keep count?

I don't know about you, but I can count to zero pretty quickly.

So the NPC bar wench is attracted to a dark and handsome male in the book, you want her to be attracted to beautiful blonde female elves instead in the name of equality...ready watch how simple this is...now she is, in your game, in your mind, in your players mind, who cares what the book says?

HOLY COW THAT WAS SIMPLE! MY MIND IS BLOWN!

Wait, no. We already knew that.

I'm going to invert your statement. How hard would it be for WotC to make that change on their end first? And if players don't like that the bar wench likes other wenches, let THEM change it? How come we must always focus on the "standard" when we're playing in a world of fantasy and make believe?

Ready? Watch how simple it is.

The whole purpose of this hobby is to be able to think out of the box, creatively and build the world you want, so do it, and stop worrying about what the example in the book says. It's not lip service, it's just simply WotC hoping you have enough initiative and intelligence to change things to how you want them for your game, while I change them for how I want them for my game.

So you're saying that WotC puts out a subpar product that they expect players will be intelligent enough to change to suit their needs? Because that's not how the world works.

You put out a product that you hope the customer embraces wholly. And you change what's in that product so that you can hit a wider audience. This is basic marketing. If you have a fringe product, you have a tight range of what's in your product. If you have a mass release product, you better hope it has enough in it to appeal to the mass. And that means you vary your approach in what you're putting forward (or you appeal to the lowest common denominator, which isn't how it works in games like D&D, thankfully).

It's a game. Not everything in the world has to be viewed through the eyes of social justice. Just because Lara Croft had a ridiculously tiny waist, huge boobs and swung around dungeons doesn't mean I expected my wife to fit that unreasonable image and she doesn't, and I love her exactly the way she is.

It's really funny you mention Lara Croft. Because they re-did her a few years ago in a new game. She's a completely different body type, still attractive but quite capable, and guess what? She did quite well.

"Social Justice" in entertainment just means that you try to stop appealing to just one demographic, and try to represent different groups as well - without resorting to unpleasant stereotypes. When you approach a game with this lens, you get new players. I don't see why D&D should be any different.

TLDR; If you want everyone in your world to be a hot transgender person than make it so, stop waiting for someone else to make it so.

TLDR - Stop trying to maintain the status quo out of fear of letting new people into the game. There's nothing wrong with the occasional trans or gay person in a game... it won't hurt you any. And if you don't like it, no one's stopping you from changing it.
 

Celtavian

Dragon Lord
I enjoyed several of the female leads in the Ice Mark trilogy, if you have ever heard of those. There is actually an entire group of people who are exclusively Matriarchal, without being heavily insulting towards men (as far as I remember. It has been a few years since my last reading). There is also Sabriel, or Lireal, from the Abhorsen series by Garth Nix. Although, it is sometimes easy to forget that Sabriel is female (once again, as far as I remember). There was Mallory from the Spiderwick series, though that is fantasy in modern day, so I am not sure how well it applies to this situation. That is all I can think of for now, though I may come back later with some more.

Ice Mark trilogy. Never heard of that. I'll have to look it up.
 


Evandis

First Post
First, it's kind of the epitome of jerkdom to put in necrophilia in the same sentence as, well, a lot of what you're saying. I'm going to assume you didn't mean it that way, and just put it there by way of making a joke.



Because while you can do whatever you want - and no one in this thread has been contesting that, at all - it pays to have an official supplier of the product actually endorse that lifestyle choice. Do you remember years ago, when the TV show Ellen had the main character "come out"? That was a big deal - even though it didn't change anyone's actual life. Why? Because it showed that the TV networks were willing to accept the existence of homosexuals as main characters... before that, they were just "confirmed bachelors" or something silly like that.

Or think of the occasional gay character that shows up in Doctor Who (especially during Eccleston and Tenant's runs). It wasn't a big deal - just a line in passing. And in doing so, it showed that the series was recognizing the diversity of human life.

We know we can make NPCs gay if we like. But it's sure nice to see a bit of recognition in official products... which is an entirely different thing.



Time? It's pretty simple to, once in a while, flip things. No one's asking for a perfect demographic representation. We see a LOT of products where someone will "be influenced by the highest charisma female" or something to that effect. It's pretty easy to flip that and say "He'll be influenced by the highest charisma male".

In the most recent Adventure Path from WotC, Out of the Abyss, there's a whole slew of NPCs that will travel with the characters... and I can see a few that could be made homosexual or transgender (there is a hermaphroditic myconid, I guess...) It doesn't take any extra page count to invert the sexuality once or twice. Hell, they even mention a drow priestesses lovers... so it's not like wotc is avoiding the concept of romance or sexuality in their games.

So why not flip it?



I don't know about you, but I can count to zero pretty quickly.



HOLY COW THAT WAS SIMPLE! MY MIND IS BLOWN!

Wait, no. We already knew that.

I'm going to invert your statement. How hard would it be for WotC to make that change on their end first? And if players don't like that the bar wench likes other wenches, let THEM change it? How come we must always focus on the "standard" when we're playing in a world of fantasy and make believe?

Ready? Watch how simple it is.



So you're saying that WotC puts out a subpar product that they expect players will be intelligent enough to change to suit their needs? Because that's not how the world works.

You put out a product that you hope the customer embraces wholly. And you change what's in that product so that you can hit a wider audience. This is basic marketing. If you have a fringe product, you have a tight range of what's in your product. If you have a mass release product, you better hope it has enough in it to appeal to the mass. And that means you vary your approach in what you're putting forward (or you appeal to the lowest common denominator, which isn't how it works in games like D&D, thankfully).



It's really funny you mention Lara Croft. Because they re-did her a few years ago in a new game. She's a completely different body type, still attractive but quite capable, and guess what? She did quite well.

"Social Justice" in entertainment just means that you try to stop appealing to just one demographic, and try to represent different groups as well - without resorting to unpleasant stereotypes. When you approach a game with this lens, you get new players. I don't see why D&D should be any different.



TLDR - Stop trying to maintain the status quo out of fear of letting new people into the game. There's nothing wrong with the occasional trans or gay person in a game... it won't hurt you any. And if you don't like it, no one's stopping you from changing it.

Way to completely miss the point in your self-righteousness.

And the bolded part is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. The PHB covers all that is needed to be said about this. It welcomes them in and tells them there is NOTHING wrong with their choice. That's all that needs to ever be said. If the gender/sexual orientation of NPCs, which are nothing more than templates that any good DM changes has any bearing on the decisions YOU make on YOUR character sheet than the person with the problem is not the publisher or writer, it is solely on the person creating the character.

I own every 5E product to date and none of the NPCs have been approached in a manner that puts any sort of focus on their gender and sexual orientation choices. Stop chasing boogeymen. Gamers have long been known to be open minded and accepting of "alternative" lifestyles as is, so your status quo crap is just that crap.
 
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billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Way to completely miss the point in your self-righteousness.

And that point is what? That it's OK for game companies to exclude non-heterosexual, non-binary gendered NPCs because people interested in that could always override the sexual preferences and genders of the NPCs anyway?
 

Evandis

First Post
And that point is what? That it's OK for game companies to exclude non-heterosexual, non-binary gendered NPCs because people interested in that could always override the sexual preferences and genders of the NPCs anyway?

Show me the sexual orientation, gender identification stat block item in one book, please and thank you.
 

Wik

First Post
Way to completely miss the point in your self-righteousness.

Ah. Self Righteouosness. Gotcha.

And the bolded part is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read.

Don't read your own posts before posting them, then?

The PHB covers all that is needed to be said about this. It welcomes them in and tells them there is NOTHING wrong with their choice. That's all that needs to ever be said.

I agree with all but the last. A little bit of coverage in the products doesn't cause any harm.

If the gender/sexual orientation of NPCs, which are nothing more than templates that any good DM changes has any bearing on the decisions YOU make on YOUR character sheet than the person with the problem is not the publisher or writer, it is solely on the person creating the character.

And what about NPCs? What about every villain having only heterosexual relationships? Every rescue the damself being a heterosexual relationship? Every husband and wife innkeeper family? Why can we not mix that up a little? Who does it hurt?

I own every 5E product to date and none of the NPCs have been approached in a manner that puts any sort of focus on their gender and sexual orientation choices.

Read 'em again. The drow priestess in OotA has male lovers who compete with one another. The dragon queen series has a few that escape me at the moment. PotA has some villains where their gender plays an important role in their backstory (the air woman? Can't remember right now). The point is - why not flip it? Why not have a bit of a switch to generic roles?

Again. Who does it hurt?

Stop chasing boogeymen. Gamers have long been known to be open minded and accepting of "alternative" lifestyles as is,

Right. Long been known. Gamergate was a thousand years ago, not last year. Because THOSE guys were totally accepting of diversity, and they weren't gamers. Point me to this super acceptance.

I mean, it's not like this thread is a thousand posts long.


so your status quo crap is just that crap.

It always amuses me when someone tries to insult someone but can't use proper syntax to do it. They always wind up looking like bumpkins.
 

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