hawkeyefan
Legend
That's a good point. Radiant just had a connotation that implies "holy" to me. Probably just bias on my part, but I imagine many share that bias.
Holy and unholy would work. Divine would be a good one word term that would serve.
D&D 5E Paladins in SCAG are all good-aligned?
That's a good point. Radiant just had a connotation that implies "holy" to me. Probably just bias on my part, but I imagine many share that bias.
Holy and unholy would work. Divine would be a good one word term that would serve.
Here's one issue I've run into. I want to play a paladin but I'm not allowed to since our group has a neutral evil rogue. The DM'S argument is based upon the contents of this holy diver mentality from previous editions. The beauty of 5th is they've left the room necessary for a neutral paladin. He believes that you simply won't be able to get the two to coexist. My argument is that the god or diety that's worshipped could simply be bane or loth.
Ralif Redhammer
Legend
I dunno, maybe it's just the old school part of me, but non-LG paladins just don't feel right to me.
I also think that no matter what, it's up to the players to not derail the game because they think their character gets to be disruptive in the name of "role-playing." Play whatever you want, but don't infringe on the rights of the other players to do the same.
I also think that no matter what, it's up to the players to not derail the game because they think their character gets to be disruptive in the name of "role-playing." Play whatever you want, but don't infringe on the rights of the other players to do the same.
Istbor
Dances with Gnolls
I would not want to use Holy versus Unholy. That can be pretty subjective. One Cleric's Holy, is simply another Cleric's Unholy. While I agree that radiant is evocative of light, which then implies goodliness, can still simply work as the power from the Gods/Goddesses.
Or in a home campaign, different divine creatures use different sources of power and damage type, one that best fits a portfolio.
GreenTengu
Adventurer
I can get Lawful Neutral and Lawful Evil Paladins.
After all, the concept of a Paladin is a completely loyal warrior of a god, or at least a set of ideals, whose strength comes from their conviction to hold to those ideals regardless of the odds. Whether the code is one that causes peace and happiness or one that causes strife and suffering is regardless, both would clearly utilize powerful acting agents in order to enforce this code upon the world and destroy those who would disrupt the order.
Honestly, in any conflict one side will consider itself good and the other evil and even if those are "real things" in D&D and such nonsense, if your setting is any more complex than a Golden Age Comic book or Saturday Morning cartoon, when mixed alignment generally neutral states go to war the Paladins will still fundamentally fight for their faction against the other. Thus it is easy to imagine that any given Paladin is likely to be Good to some individuals and Evil to others regardless of their intentions. Once you take up a sword in order to enforce something upon the world, that is inevitable.
But if you have someone who is Chaotic being a Paladin? How does that even work?
So now they aren't loyal to their order or their god and don't stick to any set of ideals or convictions if it gets in the way of what is generally beneficial either for others (good) or themselves (evil)... or just act random and insane with no purpose in life but to be random and contrarian against all authority including to the deity who is instructing them to be contrarian (CN).
It is one thing for an individual to be chaotic and random and do their own thing and fight against order as themselves, but if one is someone or something's devoted weapon unquestioningly and unwaveringly loyal in the face of all opposition to that individual's will... then you aren't Chaotic, even if the thing you are fighting for is in fact Chaotic, you yourself are still fundamentally a Lawful agent.
And that is how the deities would want it. A Chaotic Evil deity is still going to want their champions to be unwaveringly loyal to their cause and never consider betraying them, even if their goal is to break down the systems in the world and gather as much power for themselves as possible.
This is definitely one of those things that demonstrates the whole alignment system to be a really farcical and stupid concept that fails to convey how things actually function in a well-considered, well-written story.
After all, the concept of a Paladin is a completely loyal warrior of a god, or at least a set of ideals, whose strength comes from their conviction to hold to those ideals regardless of the odds. Whether the code is one that causes peace and happiness or one that causes strife and suffering is regardless, both would clearly utilize powerful acting agents in order to enforce this code upon the world and destroy those who would disrupt the order.
Honestly, in any conflict one side will consider itself good and the other evil and even if those are "real things" in D&D and such nonsense, if your setting is any more complex than a Golden Age Comic book or Saturday Morning cartoon, when mixed alignment generally neutral states go to war the Paladins will still fundamentally fight for their faction against the other. Thus it is easy to imagine that any given Paladin is likely to be Good to some individuals and Evil to others regardless of their intentions. Once you take up a sword in order to enforce something upon the world, that is inevitable.
But if you have someone who is Chaotic being a Paladin? How does that even work?
So now they aren't loyal to their order or their god and don't stick to any set of ideals or convictions if it gets in the way of what is generally beneficial either for others (good) or themselves (evil)... or just act random and insane with no purpose in life but to be random and contrarian against all authority including to the deity who is instructing them to be contrarian (CN).
It is one thing for an individual to be chaotic and random and do their own thing and fight against order as themselves, but if one is someone or something's devoted weapon unquestioningly and unwaveringly loyal in the face of all opposition to that individual's will... then you aren't Chaotic, even if the thing you are fighting for is in fact Chaotic, you yourself are still fundamentally a Lawful agent.
And that is how the deities would want it. A Chaotic Evil deity is still going to want their champions to be unwaveringly loyal to their cause and never consider betraying them, even if their goal is to break down the systems in the world and gather as much power for themselves as possible.
This is definitely one of those things that demonstrates the whole alignment system to be a really farcical and stupid concept that fails to convey how things actually function in a well-considered, well-written story.
Mouseferatu
Hero
Oh, I hate that. Why is it the paladin that has to give? Why can't the person who wants to play the NE rogue be the one who has to change, if anyone does?
I mean, obviously if one character came first and the other is a new/replacement character, that takes precedence. But I've seen this attitude from people who are just starting a campaign. It's always "Oh, the paladin's going to be disruptive!" *place back of hand on forehead and faint appropriately* To me, it makes far more sense to argue that the evil or CN character is the disruptive one.
Ahem. Sorry. Rant over.
I believe that people shouldn't be so close minded about a paladin only being LG. There's always extremists in real life religion who do what they see as good, but in fact is great evil. So why not allow for the evil aspect to be introduced ?
hawkeyefan
Legend
Well I would think evil deities and their followers would have no problem with the label unholy. Not of they've already embraced the word evil.
I get your point though. I have an NPC character in my game that is a holdover from the anti-paladin days. So I think when I draw him up for the new edition, I'll make his smite damage necrotic.
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