Where is the National Guard?

[Morlock]

Tell that to people when food stamps benefits get cut or otherwise encumbered by increasing regulation or when unemployment benefits run out. But, hey, justify your assumptions about people being "scummy" however you want and pray like hell that you'll never be in that position around people like yourself who will consider you scummy for it without knowing your story.

You seem to have missed my point, which was that I'd be willing to bet that a large proportion of the (very small) number of people for whom starvation is actually a real problem are probably self-inflicting their wounds. E.g., parents who would rather sell their food stamps on the black market and use the proceeds to get high than feed their kids, or the mentally ill who can't manage a household, no matter how much money or aid you give them, or...you get the idea (I hope).

I certainly wasn't implying that poor people are scummy, as you seem to have inferred.

What I have found is that "righties" have no idea what "lefties" want, think or feel, but they think they do.

In my experience, leftists are the grand masters of imputing whatever "thoughts" they want to their political adversaries. I frequently find myself wanting to borrow whatever device they employ for this telepathic ability.

 

[Lord Twig]

Election days should be national holidays or should be on Saturday. Or it could be over several days, really no reason it all has to be on one day.

Try to get the Republicans to agree to that though. To many people (of the "wrong" sort) would be able to vote then.

 

[Bedrockgames]

this is speculation (as I grew up poor and didn't resort to lawlessness), but I would suspect people living in continued poorness with no prospects may develop a lack of respect for society (what has it ever done for them), such that they turn to drugs and crime to escape or get their way over the world.

Consider that what we have here in the US is "street crime" over in the middle east is a comparable demographic that is joining terrorist groups instead.

It's the same lack of hope, and lawlessness attitude, just funneled slightly differently.

I don't know what the stats are. I am not saying it is a forgone conclusion by any stretch. I am just saying the pressures that could lead one to commit crime are much more pronounced and real when you are poor (particularly if you are trying to support a family). It also just affects every aspect of your life. It is one thing to be single or young and suffer through hunger, another thing when you are watching your family suffer and just want to be a good provider. And I am not saying every person who is poor and commits a crime is doing so for these kinds of reasons (there are also plenty of people who just want quick cash or who don't respect others and have no problem victimizing people to advance their own interests). But there are also reluctant criminals who do it because they feel like they have little choice. My point is I think people are way too dismissive of other peoples circumstances and sometimes act as though people who are poor like being that way or are just lazy.

 

[tomBitonti]

ETA: okay, I'll bite. How many people died last year in this country from starvation? How many people were hospitalized for malnutrition?

According to quora (see: https://www.quora.com/How-many-Americans-starve-to-death-each-year):

Around 2000-3000 just among the elderly. I'm not finding reliable rates for other age cohorts.

But answers.com (see: http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_die_from_starvation_each_year_in_America) has:

According to the World Health Organization, 120 Americans died from "lack of food" in 2004.

Starvation rates in the United States are generally not recorded due to the relative infrequency of the occurrence. Generally speaking, most people do not starve to death in America as a result of lack of access to food. A combination of government food programs and private charities help to ensure this. However, Americans do have a serious problem with malnutrition. Starvation (that is, death due to lack of food) in America, in the relatively rare instances that it does occur, is not usually an indication of poverty but rather a variety of other social issues.

Wikipedia has a long article on the subject. It's much longer than I can summarize here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States

Thx!
TomB

 

[Mallus]

Voter ID laws cloak themselves in the shallow pretense of avoiding virtually non-existent instances of in-person voter fraud when they actually exist for the purpose of manipulating votes.

When the voter ID law went to court here in Pennsylvania, the State declined/failed to provide any evidence of voter fraud. Their defense of said law consisted entirely of "here are experts who say it won't disenfranchise too many people". As you might imagine, it was struck down.

You want mandatory voter IDs? Fine. Provide them to all eligible citizens --ie, the one on the voter rolls -- for free. Or rather, use taxpayer money. Its' what we pay taxes for.

 

[Morlock]

Around 2000-3000 just among the elderly. I'm not finding reliable rates for other age cohorts.

Okay, I could buy that. It does agree with what I was saying.

Starvation (that is, death due to lack of food) in America, in the relatively rare instances that it does occur, is not usually an indication of poverty but rather a variety of other social issues.

That's pretty much exactly what I was saying, though I admit I could have said it better in the first approach.

ETA: the hand-wringing over voter ID is amusing. Voter ID is how they do it in the civilized world (but not America). Just ask a European.

 

[Ovinomancer]

What I have found is that "righties" have no idea what "lefties" want, think or feel, but they think they do.

Left: "I think if we do A it would make America great!"

Right: "No, doing A would destroy America! You want to destroy America! You hate America!"

Left: "I also think that doing B would help with racial equality."

Right: "No, doing B would give all of the advantages to the minorities! Why do you hate White people?"

Really those on the Right should just stop trying to ascribe motives to those of us on the Left and just agree to disagree. It seems in the past that both the Right and the Left would believe that the other side wants the best for America, but they just disagree on how to get there. Now the Right thinks the Left are full of evil, America hating communists that want to destroy the country.

As for the idiots at the Refuge in Oregon (I think we all agreed they are idiots). They are in the wrong here. The refuge was created over 100 years ago by Teddy Roosevelt. If they really want to give it back to the original owners, that would be the Native Americans. Or their descendants as none of the actual "original owners" are alive anymore.

But really, that ship has sailed. The people of America now own all of the land currently held for us by our government, however it was aquired. It is our government, we can tell them what to do with it. The majority is perfectly happy with that land being a refuge. If you don't like it you can vote for representatives that agree and will try to change it, but you have to accept when you are out voted. That's how a democracy works (or representative republic in our case).

Oh, man, talk about the pot and the kettle!

 

[Morlock]

As if race (or gender) were the determinative factor. It's not. It's not as if men or minorities are just monsters waiting to pounce when no one is looking.

You seem to have gotten my point backwards. Blacks being so frequently incarcerated is evidence of malfeasance, while men being even more frequently incarcerated is...*crickets chirping*

 

[MechaPilot]

You seem to have gotten my point backwards. Blacks being so frequently incarcerated is evidence of malfeasance, while men being even more frequently incarcerated is...*crickets chirping*

Men being more frequently incarcerated, depending on the circumstance, is evidence of a double standard. There's certainly a double-standard in domestic violence cases, which is (I suppose) a small step-up from old days when we just pretended that it wasn't perpetrated by either men or women.

 

[Lord Twig]

Oh, man, talk about the pot and the kettle!

What? I think those on the Right want what is best for America. All I ask is that they acknowledge the same in return.