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Where is the National Guard?

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Morlock

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No, racist is what I call someone who makes racist statements, like black not paying taxes, or being worse humans than other races. You probably don't even get the irony of your posts accusing "leftists" of playing victim, while at the same time portraying yourself and other white people as the real victims.

How is it racist to point out that African-Americans pay a lot less in taxes, and consume a lot more in taxpayer-funded services, relative to European-Americans or Asian-Americans?

"Worse humans"? Wait, what now?

P.S., what exactly are lefties saying about whites when they call America racist, say that whites oppress blacks, etc? That we're "better humans"?
 

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"Racist" is what lefties call you when they can't be bothered to make a cogent argument.
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It has been watered down through over use, and that is unfortunate because a lot of people are using that as cover for real racism. This is why I think we shouldn't be so quick to lob the accusation, but sometimes it fits. Increasingly it feels like people are engaging in brazen racism and using the word's overuse as a shield (not saying you are as I haven't followed your posts closely enough to weigh in). I think we can both look at this situation objectively, examine some of the religious underpinnings objectively, without getting becoming bigots against all Muslims. I welcome clear-eyed examinations of religions. I abhor some the nazi-like rhetoric coming from people like Trump. Islam is like a lot of other faiths, it has its conservatives, its progressives, etc. Right now there are some dangerous movements like the one ISIS belongs to, and I think we need to be critical of those movements, while letting other Muslims know we support them and treat like human beings.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Poverty rates: there are more whites living below the poverty line in America than there are poor blacks.

We need to be careful when we are talking about a rate (a percentage) and when we are talking about an absolute number.

According to the National Census Bureau, in 2014, some 31 million white people in the US were below the poverty line. Some 11 million African Americans were below the poverty line. So, yes, in absolute terms, there were more white people in poverty. But...

According toe the same source, those 31 million white people were about 12% of the white population. The 11 million African Americans were 26% of the African American population.

So, the poverty *rate* is higher among African Americans - if you're African American, you're more than twice as likely to be in poverty than if you're white in the US.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/data/incpovhlth/2014/table3.pdf

Then there's the fact that no one in America is starving.

The USDA finds that about 86% of American households were food secure at all times in 2014. "These households had access, at all times, to enough food for an active, healthy life for all household members."

That means 14% of housholds had some level of food insecurity - "At times during the year, these households were uncertain of having, or unable to acquire, enough food to meet the needs of all their members because they had insufficient money or other resources for food. Food-insecure households include those with low food security and very low food security."

Rates of food insecurity were higher for some groups:

All households with children (19.2 percent),
Households with children under age 6 (19.9 percent),
Households with children headed by a single woman (35.3 percent),
Households with children headed by a single man (21.7 percent),
Black, non-Hispanic households (26.1 percent),
Hispanic households (22.4 percent)

http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food...curity-in-the-us/key-statistics-graphics.aspx


Heck, if poverty rates were really to blame, then why is it a small minority of blacks (young, urban, male) doing the overwhelming majority of the killing?

There are other social factors involved, that transcend race. Whatever the race, men are *far* more likely to be violent criminals than women. In essence, when you put a group under stress, it is the men who lean toward the high risk activities that may lead to violence. This likely has more to do with more broad gender roles than race.

Disenfranchised: I don't know what that means. Blacks vote at higher rates than most populations, last time I checked.

By the US Census Bureau, voting rates for blacks were 2.1 percent higher than whites in the 2012 Presidential election. That was the first (and only) time that lack voting rates were higher than whites in the period of 1996-2012. The cite I found doesn't speak to years before that, but in 1996 blacks were voting at a rate of 7.7% lower than whites. The trend is such that I am not confident that they'd ever been at a higher rate before 2012.

https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/p20-568.pdf


You try solving crimes in an area where "no snitchin" reigns supreme, some time. The "law" can't protect witnesses, money can.

Yes. See the financial sector (filled with white people) as an example of both of these - you'd imagine a lot of folks should have gone up the river for fraud after our last financial crisis, but... no. Closed mouths and money do protect people, clearly.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
By the US Census Bureau, voting rates for blacks were 2.1 percent higher than whites in the 2012 Presidential election. That was the first (and only) time that lack voting rates were higher than whites in the period of 1996-2012. The cite I found doesn't speak to years before that, but in 1996 blacks were voting at a rate of 7.7% lower than whites. The trend is such that I am not confident that they'd ever been at a higher rate before 2012.
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Don't worry, some states are working to reverse that. Like Alabama requiring state issued ID to vote, and then promptly closing all DMV offices in predominantly black areas.
 

Janx

Hero
It's times like these when I view my time deployed overseas (6 years), the friends I've lost, and realize "this is the type of free speech we sacrificed to protect?" Yeah, I know without free speech for everyone it becomes a worthless thing, but it still is equal parts depressing and irritating.

I don't mean to disrespect your service, and this is probably a huge fork, but I think there's a chunk of people who question the validity of sending you overseas to fight some other dudes who are fighting about something as protecting American Free Speech.

Unless you specifically went overseas to kill some guys who were killing newspapers (or some such), you weren't even protecting the concept of free speech.

I don't know where you went, but I'm certain you did it with good intent and honor and all that. If your effort was wasted (by some metric like above), that fault lies with the leaders who deployed you.

In any event, I don't think soldiers sent overseas to fight bad guys has anything to do with protecting American Rights (as documented in the constitution). Barring a war to fight Nazis because they WERE expanding to take over America eventually and take our freedoms. Whether you fired 10 bullets, or zero over there, had zero impact on any US Citizens rights in the US. Hopefully what you were doing over there was helping to stop bad things from happening to other people in other countries. That's still good. But it is faulty logic to associate that service with protecting free speech and such because almost no conflict somewhere else can directly remove rights from an American Citizen in America*.

*except as somebody else noted that it ratchets our terror threat level to justify abridging 4th amendment rights and such to scrutinize and search our own citizens. Or fighting an expansionist empire that truly threatens to take over our country.
 

I think people who don't live in poverty or who have never truly, truly experienced it for a prolonged period, do not understand how it impacts every aspect of life. Especially with the way things like debt work this in this country.
 

Morlock

Banned
Banned
We need to be careful when we are talking about a rate (a percentage) and when we are talking about an absolute number.

According to the National Census Bureau, in 2014, some 31 million white people in the US were below the poverty line. Some 11 million African Americans were below the poverty line. So, yes, in absolute terms, there were more white people in poverty. But...

According toe the same source, those 31 million white people were about 12% of the white population. The 11 million African Americans were 26% of the African American population.

So, the poverty *rate* is higher among African Americans - if you're African American, you're more than twice as likely to be in poverty than if you're white in the US.

True about rates. Believe me, I'm all for increasing numeracy. But I think it fits in a statement about population percentages and how many murders given populations commit. If it's all down to poverty...

There are other social factors involved, that transcend race. Whatever the race, men are *far* more likely to be violent criminals than women.

Indeed. Why that isn't a sexist statement is anyone's guess.

In essence, when you put a group under stress, it is the men who lean toward the high risk activities that may lead to violence. This likely has more to do with more broad gender roles than race.

Sounds like a way to sweep the racial issue under the rug. Nobody's defending the male sex, or claiming that the male sex is being targeted by a sexist, oppressive system.

By the US Census Bureau, voting rates for blacks were 2.1 percent higher than whites in the 2012 Presidential election. That was the first (and only) time that lack voting rates were higher than whites in the period of 1996-2012. The cite I found doesn't speak to years before that, but in 1996 blacks were voting at a rate of 7.7% lower than whites. The trend is such that I am not confident that they'd ever been at a higher rate before 2012.

Sounds like black voting rates are pretty good.

Yes. See the financial sector (filled with white people) as an example of both of these - you'd imagine a lot of folks should have gone up the river for fraud after our last financial crisis, but... no. Closed mouths and money do protect people, clearly.

No argument here. It's a national scandal that none of the crooks and thieves were held to account. I'm all for rounding up the violators and prosecuting them, and putting them in jail at the end.

Re food security, sure, but the number of people who don't get enough to eat in this country is vanishingly small. And has more to do with individual circumstances on the ground (e.g., scummy parents who neglect their children) than with policy, per se.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
I think people who don't live in poverty or who have never truly, truly experienced it for a prolonged period, do not understand how it impacts every aspect of life. Especially with the way things like debt work this in this country.

I don't understand your point. What are you referring to? What about poverty isn't understood? For the record, I spent a year homeless as a 20 something, so maybe I qualify as someone that might understand something about how poverty might work for some things? I don't know.
 


Morlock

Banned
Banned
Don't worry, some states are working to reverse that. Like Alabama requiring state issued ID to vote, and then promptly closing all DMV offices in predominantly black areas.

Cite? There's nothing wrong with requiring ID to vote. Seems like common sense to me. It's what they do in Europe, after all.

As for closing all DMV offices in predominantly black areas, let's just say I'm from Missouri.

I think people who don't live in poverty or who have never truly, truly experienced it for a prolonged period, do not understand how it impacts every aspect of life. Especially with the way things like debt work this in this country.

Poverty sucks. But I don't see how it justifies, or even explains, violent crime. Most of the murders in this country are not committed by people trying to keep a roof over their kids' heads, or food on the table. They're committed by young criminals over conflicts with other young criminals, over things like territory, drug deals, romantic disputes, arguments, etc. The illegitimacy rate among blacks was like 70%, last time I checked. That does not really agree with the "gotta feed my starving family" thing, IMO.

ETA: okay, I'll bite. How many people died last year in this country from starvation? How many people were hospitalized for malnutrition?
 

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